Eye mystery

[Brandon Dawson]

(05-14-2013 11:49 AM)Saga Felix Wrote:  This might be as good a time as any to say "Help....!".... I have pondered it for a while, since I am barely in SL these days, and only have a few cats left myself. I have been working on the charts for 1½ years now, and apart from one tip of 500L that I got one time, this is unpaid voluntary work - and it's been awesome fun, and very much worth it when every one of you, one after the other, have told me how useful you find the charts.
-But I could really use some help now - so if any of you clever people out there are willing, maybe you could start by re-viewing this crystal-mess for me? I will send my whole stacks of notecards who any who are willing, and if you can make sense of it, surely you are clever enough to lend a hand if you like :-)

Always appreciate the work Saga,

More than willing to help with this issue if you don't dump your notecards onto Liriel ^^;

I work from home and am online most of the day, plenty of free time to sort through notecards and make sense of the trait charts / Crystal Eyes-mess.

Cheers,

Brandon

[Kayleigh McMillan]

(05-14-2013 05:10 PM)Ethereal Hurricane Wrote:  ...

I'd like to suggest that we could make a wiki type thing for the charts, and other kittycats information, this way it could truly be a community project to edit and moderate. Wiki's can be locked so only select people can actually edit, but they have discussion pages available for debates and things like that. That would be perfect for people to debate and post their findings before things go live, notecards in second life seem more trouble than they are worth.

I really like this idea!

[Serena Stroikavskoi]

(05-14-2013 06:55 PM)Kayleigh McMillan Wrote:  

(05-14-2013 05:10 PM)Ethereal Hurricane Wrote:  ...

I'd like to suggest that we could make a wiki type thing for the charts, and other kittycats information, this way it could truly be a community project to edit and moderate. Wiki's can be locked so only select people can actually edit, but they have discussion pages available for debates and things like that. That would be perfect for people to debate and post their findings before things go live, notecards in second life seem more trouble than they are worth.

I really like this idea!

Since there is a wiki incorporated here, it would be just a matter of adding in users and a section to be specific to traits.

If not http://www.wikia.com/Wikia is a create place to set up one.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

Thanks Serene
I claimed my SL name »

P.S. this all is pretty new to me so I have no idea how we can connect to eachother LOL
Not that techie I leave that up to someone with more skills and experience there XD

[Saga Felix]

I just logged into SL, and despite SL apparently not agreeing that that was a good idea, I managed to dump all my notecards etc. to Liriel, who will take good care of them in the morning. SL wouldn't even let me open most of the notecards, or even let me see my own avatar (Grrr, I hate that!), so if anyone wrote any I have missed for now, that will be why.

Liriel has agreed to help out from now on, so you're welcome to send new proof to her. Then hopefully things will get back up to speed with the charts, I am afraid I have been slacking the past month or two... or so...

---

I can see someone posted an idea about a wiki - and whatever you do, I would suggest that you all agree. Running separate charts in separate systems, handled by separate people, could easily divide the waters and make people unsure what and who to trust, and where to send any info they come across - and make it just difficult enough to not send it anywhere anyway.
The only reason the charts are what they are today, is because everyone knew exactly what to do with info, and trusted it to be handled in an ok way. I thank you all for that trust so far, and hope that no matter how the charts are handled in the future, it is in a way that people keep trusting the integrity of the people who make the final decisions on how to manage it all.

If you have ideas on how to improve the charts, I suggest you get together, for example at one of Liriel's classes, and agree on how to proceed. For now, I still hold the only access to the charts as they are right now, but I am more than willing to let them go if a sound idea comes up, backed by the community.
I would be sad to see you all split up and go separate ways with each your poor copy/paste of the current charts in hand - charts that would end up in different ways, depending on who sends what info to who, and who interprets that info in what way .
That would most certainly not be the most beneficial for the community, and I would hate to see my work so far be torn up in that way.

I hope you all agree on how to do things, so the KittyCats-community have ONE set of solid, trustworthy charts to rely on in the future as well.

-Saga

[Brandon Dawson]

(05-14-2013 10:29 PM)Saga Felix Wrote:  I just logged into SL, and despite SL apparently not agreeing that that was a good idea, I managed to dump all my notecards etc. to Liriel, who will take good care of them in the morning. SL wouldn't even let me open most of the notecards, or even let me see my own avatar (Grrr, I hate that!), so if anyone wrote any I have missed for now, that will be why.

Liriel has agreed to help out from now on, so you're welcome to send new proof to her. Then hopefully things will get back up to speed with the charts, I am afraid I have been slacking the past month or two... or so...

---

I can see someone posted an idea about a wiki - and whatever you do, I would suggest that you all agree. Running separate charts in separate systems, handled by separate people, could easily divide the waters and make people unsure what and who to trust, and where to send any info they come across - and make it just difficult enough to not send it anywhere anyway.
The only reason the charts are what they are today, is because everyone knew exactly what to do with info, and trusted it to be handled in an ok way. I thank you all for that trust so far, and hope that no matter how the charts are handled in the future, it is in a way that people keep trusting the integrity of the people who make the final decisions on how to manage it all.

If you have ideas on how to improve the charts, I suggest you get together, for example at one of Liriel's classes, and agree on how to proceed. For now, I still hold the only access to the charts as they are right now, but I am more than willing to let them go if a sound idea comes up, backed by the community.
I would be sad to see you all split up and go separate ways with each your poor copy/paste of the current charts in hand - charts that would end up in different ways, depending on who sends what info to who, and who interprets that info in what way .
That would most certainly not be the most beneficial for the community, and I would hate to see my work so far be torn up in that way.

I hope you all agree on how to do things, so the KittyCats-community have ONE set of solid, trustworthy charts to rely on in the future as well.

-Saga

I'm not suggesting creating a new chart, although your comment is directed in a broad manner and mainly to those who suggested a wiki-type site (since most wiki sites are open ended and open source information, thus entitling the idea it could possibly be a fallible system of supposed trustworthy information) but since you're basically stating in the post above this that you don't think you have the time to maintain your system of charts and asking for help, at least with spring eyes collection, your charts could either be updated by a apprentice or successor using your fool-proof method, or something similar if there were to be such a system of proofing traits for public knowledge.

While I agree wholeheartedly your point about an infallible system is a best one --

I remember when there were 2 separate charts from the start of KittyCats til the end of 2011, your chart (the Saga Chart) and the kittycats breeders guild chart/nacht chart (which wasn't posted on the forums) - yours obviously was more precise and direct, open and public knowledge via the forums, while theres was a less organized table of tiers, despite being accurate when there were fewer traits to keep track of. Eventually your chart (Saga's chart) became more precise and organized, thus it was adopted as the social standard among the community and the other chart was ceased to be updated due to the nature of tiers versus precise order.

Either way, if you need help or something to succeed you - find someone who you think is trustworthy (I'm assuming Liriel) to succeed Saga's charts if you become inactive from the KittyCats community.

There's obviously some heavy responsibility to someone who succeeds Saga's Charts (if that was to happen), which obviously means the community needs a very objective voice to continue the future of recording traits for the community if Saga were to leave. A wiki is similar to an open source google document, one troll could ruin it for everyone - but obviously a closed google document or closed wiki (which is the same as your google document format) which was maintained by trustworthy opinion, council, personnel or guidance, would be a step in the right direction.

Either way glad to see progress is being made

[Kayleigh McMillan]

I agree with you Brandon as long as there is taking care of the community efforts made so far I'm okay.
Wether this is via a limited access Wiki or via Liriel and the Google Docs which seems to be equally secure as it depends more on how it is done than on which platform.
I hope somehow this stays live to honor the work and the efforts of our community who brought in proof in this matter.
Either way of working this out is okay I think as long as it is taken care of by someone who still feels involved and is participating with KittyCatS while using an accurate method to collect and review proof.

[Liriel Garnet]

(05-14-2013 10:29 PM)Saga Felix Wrote:  I just logged into SL, and despite SL apparently not agreeing that that was a good idea, I managed to dump all my notecards etc. to Liriel, who will take good care of them in the morning. SL wouldn't even let me open most of the notecards, or even let me see my own avatar (Grrr, I hate that!), so if anyone wrote any I have missed for now, that will be why.

Liriel has agreed to help out from now on, so you're welcome to send new proof to her. Then hopefully things will get back up to speed with the charts, I am afraid I have been slacking the past month or two... or so...

---

I can see someone posted an idea about a wiki - and whatever you do, I would suggest that you all agree. Running separate charts in separate systems, handled by separate people, could easily divide the waters and make people unsure what and who to trust, and where to send any info they come across - and make it just difficult enough to not send it anywhere anyway.
The only reason the charts are what they are today, is because everyone knew exactly what to do with info, and trusted it to be handled in an ok way. I thank you all for that trust so far, and hope that no matter how the charts are handled in the future, it is in a way that people keep trusting the integrity of the people who make the final decisions on how to manage it all.

If you have ideas on how to improve the charts, I suggest you get together, for example at one of Liriel's classes, and agree on how to proceed. For now, I still hold the only access to the charts as they are right now, but I am more than willing to let them go if a sound idea comes up, backed by the community.
I would be sad to see you all split up and go separate ways with each your poor copy/paste of the current charts in hand - charts that would end up in different ways, depending on who sends what info to who, and who interprets that info in what way .
That would most certainly not be the most beneficial for the community, and I would hate to see my work so far be torn up in that way.

I hope you all agree on how to do things, so the KittyCats-community have ONE set of solid, trustworthy charts to rely on in the future as well.

-Saga

Right now my main job will be to gather inputs, sort them out, and send finalized information to Saga to update the charts, so feel free to send me the information you'd normally send to Saga. My avatar is logged in most of the time, even when I'm AFK, so no worries about overrunning messages, etc, just please drop me an IM when you send me something so I know to look for it.

My initial focus will be to go thru all the crystal eye inputs and figure out what proofs are actually still valid with the known potential issue of a 'new' eye popping out in the special births (i.e. one that neither parent shows/hides), but I'll take inputs on all trait proofs any time.

For those of you who aren't aware, I worked with Saga a lot a year or so ago when she took a break from things, and we did this exact thing, so I'm well familiar with how she works and we work well together, so it made sense to continue in this vein. I'll also be incorporating Daki's idea of some 'gatherings' where we get together and discuss things and talk about what's needed to actually *prove* things to incorporate them into the charts. At least initially, these will be during my 'normal' class times, starting with this Thursday.

This will still be a huge community effort, my job will be just to review all the inputs and put the results into a format to send to Saga so she can easily incorporate them into the charts.

[Ethereal Hurricane]

I created a wiki here yesterday http://kittycatsaddicts.wikia.com/
When I get some time to start adding pages, I'll try to get some styles created and what not.

If anyone would like to start creating pages, it's opened up! We'll see how/if it takes off!

[Sara Franco]

I just got this kitty, I think it is not affected by the bug as the parent carrying the eyes is not a special baby.
It proves that Crystal Sea eyes are dominant to Canary eyes which is a good start I think because Canary is around the middle of the dominance order list.


Crystal Sea Eyes Pedigree by Sara Franco @ SL, on Flickr