(05-29-2015 07:55 PM)Ivy Norsk Wrote:  Cats can absolutely be provably pure. But often the pedigrees we see show maybe or probably pure.
It seems that more people used to understand the difference between "line-bred" and "pure-bred" cats. Now I see lots of advertisements for "purebred" cats where the pedigrees given as "proof" aren't proof of anything more than line-breeding. You have to see the trait pop out from under a more dominant trait in a sibling breed or other breeding where the hidden variables are controlled in order to know that it is pure.

Okay so you have a line - a gorgeous line - of jade black bengals with the black whiskers.
And your line May indeed be pure (except for the whisker shape). And with each generation of line breeding there is the chance that the father and mother will both throw their dominant traits and that any lurking hidden trait will be eliminated. But you can't know if it's pure this way. You can only find out somewhere down the road that it isn't pure if - say two cats hiding latte throw them and you get the double recessive throw. As Devilness said, a trait can lurk for a long time, as porcelain did for a year with her without popping out.

(05-30-2015 05:12 PM)Serena Stroikavskoi Wrote:  Really how you breed the kitties is up to you. I personally have lines that I breed for a pure fur. As there is nothing more annoying to me than to finally get the traits I want only to have a recessive fur pop out that I absolutely don't like.

Just don't get into a mind set that recessive is better. There IS NO better trait. The team does a wonderful job with them so choose what you want. Basically it's knowing what you want, how to get there, and knowing what you have

Now to show a Bengal Tawny 'pure' fur I am providing a visual below. Pure just refers to the shown trait is also the hidden trait.

Row shows Genesis Smokey II and hides Bengal Tawny
Emelene shows Genesis Domino II and hides Bengal Silver

Both their offspring Manara and Goldwyn got Emelene's shown fur (Genesis Domino II) and hide Row's hidden fur the Bengal Tawny

(06-18-2015 05:42 AM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  Given a Guitar known to hide Mysterious (GM, above) and another Guitar, which is a Starter, hiding an unknown (Gx, above), the possible offspring are:

GG
GG
GM
Mx, where x is either Mysterious, or something more recessive.

Since Gx was a starter you already knew x was NOT Mysterious (since it's retired), so you've learned NOTHING and wasted the breeding cycle if your goal was to expose x. At least, if your goal was to be sure you had an offspring which also hid x. You do have a fall-back, though, and that is, when Mx can mate with Gx (opposite gender) you can breed them and have the following possible outcomes: GG Gx Mx xx .. and there is your provable pure offspring.

If Gx is not a starter, and x is completely unknown (meaning it could be Guitar), there is a chance that you'll see GG GG GM Gx. In this case you don't even know if there is a Gx which could bred back to the Gx parent. You can try, but it's a crap shoot with the odds stacked heavily against you.

If your goal was to produce pure (the subject of this thread), and Gx is a starter, using GM is a good choice.

If you goal is to simply expose x, however, GM was a poor choice.

(06-18-2015 01:36 PM)Ivy Norsk Wrote:  whereas I put all of one cat's throws in one column and all of the other cat's throws in another, so as to try to keep which trait belongs to whom clear (and capitalize the dominant trait wherever dominance is known).