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Pedigree Research
07-09-2012, 12:38 AM
Post: #1
Pedigree Research
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I am still fairly new to KittycatS but I think I am catching on pretty well Smile
Thank you to all those who have helped me thus far!
It occurs to me that a way to collate traits from further back than the 2 generation pedigree currently available would be a very useful tool. If you don't own the parents there is no way to look further back when something unexpected pops up in a kitten box (like a snowshoe blue from a siamese parents/grandparents!) If there is a way, I have yet to figure it out.
Has anyone else ever wanted to go back more generations and figured out a way around this? I wouldn't mind entering info into a database or something like that. It just seems that to fully understand and interpret the genetics of our kittycats at least one more generation - or preferably more, would be a great help to people starting out, or beginning a new line.
Hope this isnt a dumb question *grin* I LOVE breeding and learning about these little heart stealers that have taken over my prims and finances Smile)
Thank you, to anyone who reads this far and can offer help

(P.S. Waiting for a mentor, still - hope someone is brave enough!)
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07-09-2012, 01:43 AM
Post: #2
RE: Pedigree Research
One thing you can do and I have done is ask the owners of those parents/grandparents if they might have any insight or if they would mind letting you take a peek at the pedigrees. Most breeders are more then willing to do this (which is something I love) because we are all working together to figure things out and sometimes they had no clue and are just as surpized and excited as you might be! Also Saga's chart can be a lifesaver in studying things as well. https://docs.google.com/?tab=mo&authuser=0#folders/0B0_Wqb33nVpnZWYwNGViMGMtYWU4ZS00ZjAyLTk4OTctMzk2YzljODliMDhm

I promise we are working on getting everyone mentors but sadly we have WAY more mentees then mentors.
To Apply to be a mentor please copy and paste this link into your browser - http://bit.ly/KCMentorApp

Heart KittyCatS lover and former auctioneer. Please visit my store Somnia Heart
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 Thanks given by: Wytchie Resident
07-09-2012, 08:37 AM
Post: #3
RE: Pedigree Research
Hello Sanura, and thanks for your reply.

I have read Saga's docs backwards and forwards a few times Smile
I do understand trait inheritance - well, I am grasping it .. I meant that to really get a good idea of the underlying hidden traits, one really needs to be able to extend the pedigrees back a few more generations as not only do the parents have a hidden and recessive, so do their parents and their parents etc etc.. so that's gathering quite a few hidden things over 4 or 5 generations that could remain hidden all that time. If we could look further back, we'd be able to make more accurate decisions as to what line could possibly be hiding what, or how may instances of a trait to enable us to 'pull' that elusive "ONE"
I know I am preaching to the choir on this lol - you all are so far ahead of me in the breeding learning curve - but I have to start somewhere!
Asking people is a good idea - and I've noticed one or two people pop up on a regular basis in the pedigrees of my Black Russkis and Siamese Chocs!
How would they give us permission to do that? I'm not sure how that works?
In my mind the idea of a data base of some sort is being turned over.. something we could enter the info into and be able to call it up somehow. I've spent some time looking at some software breeding packages that would enable us to do that - not really found anything that is suitable yet, as we have so many single variable traits..
Thank you so much for the Mentor Programme Initative - it's a brilliant idea Smile
Calling all mentors!!
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07-09-2012, 09:53 AM (This post was last modified: 07-09-2012 10:04 AM by Tad Carlucci.)
Post: #4
RE: Pedigree Research
Mental model time.

Take slips of paper and envelopes.

Write the name of a trait, say a fur, (say "Russian Black") on the envelope.
Put a slip of paper inside the envelope with that same (here, "Russian Black") name.
Put another inside saying "or better" (meaning more recessive) (here, "Russian Black or better").

Take the fur envelopes for the parents.
Pull out one slip of paper from each.

Compare them using Saga's charts. Say we get "Russian Black" and "Russian White or better" when we do that.
Russian Black is "dominant" so write that on the envelope. Make copies of both slips, but the originals back in the parents and the copies in the offspring.

-- This model is how it works inside the game.

You can do it "in reverse" with a bit of thinking. And doing it in reverse is how Saga's charts are made.

You may hear the words, so here they are.

The envelope is the "phenotype". This is from the same base as phenomena .. think of it as "the envelope is what you see".

Inside the envelope are two slips of paper. Those slips are "alleles". The two of them together are the "genotype". Same base as genesis .. that which starts it off.

Saga's charts are the roadmap which takes you from the genotype (slips of paper inside) to the phenotype (what you see written on the envelope).
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 Thanks given by: Wytchie Resident , Bea Shamrock
07-09-2012, 09:58 AM (This post was last modified: 07-09-2012 10:05 AM by Kayleigh McMillan.)
Post: #5
RE: Pedigree Research
Hi Wytchie Smile

I'm so pleased to see you enjoy KittyCatS and their facsinating genes system just as much as most of us do!
I agree with you ideally we would be able to look further back in the pedigree of a kitten than we currently can.
I think the fact we can't has to do with privacy issues.
I know Saga has started a thread on this forum in which she hopes the pedigrees are to be unlocked so we can look back as far as we want.
If you like to read more about this discussion or want to share your opinion you can find it here >

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 Thanks given by: Wytchie Resident
07-09-2012, 11:59 AM
Post: #6
RE: Pedigree Research
Thank you so much for that link Kay! I've posted there too Smile
There's nothing new under the sun Smile
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07-09-2012, 12:05 PM
Post: #7
RE: Pedigree Research
Lol I have read you post I think indeed maybe privacy has to be less protected to gives us more inside information.
I love to surf inpedigrees as wellSmile

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