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How old is a cat with no "bred date" shown in cattery?
12-18-2018, 06:58 PM
Post: #1
How old is a cat with no "bred date" shown in cattery?
I have noticed that some of the really old kitten boxes I've picked up over the years do not show a "bred" date in the cattery. The date shows as "unknown." The earliest "bred" date I have seen as shown on the cats in my collection is January 2012. So, does that mean that a cat with an unknown bred date dates back to 2011, the first year of KittyCats?

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 Thanks given by: Ryanna Enfield
12-19-2018, 01:47 AM
Post: #2
RE: How old is a cat with no "bred date" shown in cattery?
One of the easiest ways to check would be by looking at the traits and checking the discovered dates on those. If all the traits were discovered before the earliest date you see then I'd guess your assumption is correct. The online cattery was launched in April 2012 so its possible they didn't start adding box drop dates until around that time in one of the previous updates.
Another way to check dates is to look at the baby via its parents page, if you bred the box of course and Menageried or kept the parent. Box birth dates show on the parents page.

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12-19-2018, 06:09 AM (This post was last modified: 12-19-2018 06:19 AM by Ellen Ireland.)
Post: #3
RE: How old is a cat with no "bred date" shown in cattery?
I wasn't breeding that long ago, so any boxes which are that old are not ones that I bred myself. I started in 2015. They're either the earliest Gen furs, which I have been collecting, or Snowshoe Lilac, which is apparently one of the original furs. I can count back by the parents' age which does establish that the parents were birthed in 2011. A few of us have been collecting and breeding the classic Gen furs to preserve them, so I do realize that having a first-generation trait doesn't guarantee a very early breeding date. I was mostly wondering whether there was a specific date after which "bred dates" are shown.

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12-19-2018, 09:04 AM (This post was last modified: 12-19-2018 09:08 AM by Tad Carlucci.)
Post: #4
RE: How old is a cat with no "bred date" shown in cattery?
There also have been various bugs over the years, so you'll see things like an offspring missing one or two parents, or cats missing data which is filled in with all zeros. I used to have a document which showed the errors I'd found but I probably lost it two or three computers ago.
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12-20-2018, 01:54 AM
Post: #5
RE: How old is a cat with no "bred date" shown in cattery?
(12-19-2018 06:09 AM)Ellen Ireland Wrote:  I wasn't breeding that long ago, so any boxes which are that old are not ones that I bred myself. I started in 2015. They're either the earliest Gen furs, which I have been collecting, or Snowshoe Lilac, which is apparently one of the original furs. I can count back by the parents' age which does establish that the parents were birthed in 2011. A few of us have been collecting and breeding the classic Gen furs to preserve them, so I do realize that having a first-generation trait doesn't guarantee a very early breeding date. I was mostly wondering whether there was a specific date after which "bred dates" are shown.

I'll have to have a look at my original gen furs. I collected a full set last year so that I had them all Smile

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12-20-2018, 03:22 AM
Post: #6
RE: How old is a cat with no "bred date" shown in cattery?
So I had a look back and found a Genesis - Flame dated 4th November 2011. A bit of research showed that the pedigree family tree system launched in June 2011 so I'd guess box dates were available then since I can't find anything specific in the update history regarding birth dates. The online cattery launched in April 2012.
So my guess is that either Tad is right and its a bug, I have a few boxes myself that lost pedigree info during that big crash a couple years ago, or Birth dates were introduced in June 2011 with the pedigree system and your boxes predate that.

Maybe people could take a look back and see if they can find any old boxes that predate the pedigree system launch in June 2011, might be fun to see who can find the oldest box Smile

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 Thanks given by: Ellen Ireland
12-20-2018, 08:41 AM
Post: #7
RE: How old is a cat with no "bred date" shown in cattery?
Well, considering they opened near the start of the year, there's only about 5 or 6 months to look at. I doubt Charm still has any boxes from back them, but she does still have Ol' Blue Eyes, one of her original Valentine's cats from 2011. Personally, my oldest box is a purple KittyCatS! 2nd Birthday waiting for the day KittyCatS finally wises up and makes pet kits free.
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12-21-2018, 03:04 AM
Post: #8
RE: How old is a cat with no "bred date" shown in cattery?
(12-20-2018 08:41 AM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  Well, considering they opened near the start of the year, there's only about 5 or 6 months to look at. I doubt Charm still has any boxes from back them, but she does still have Ol' Blue Eyes, one of her original Valentine's cats from 2011. Personally, my oldest box is a purple KittyCatS! 2nd Birthday waiting for the day KittyCatS finally wises up and makes pet kits free.

Yes, during my research I saw that the Beta Alpha release occured 28th Dec 2010 so babies from those will be the earliest official births and should therefore date to early January 2011.
Has so many waiting permapetting would be happy with a sale to at least get some of them done. Something else I spotted as I was perusing the older threads from 2011 was a 50% off sale on perma pet, seems like that was a one off and maybe something that could be repeated.

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12-27-2018, 06:42 AM
Post: #9
RE: How old is a cat with no "bred date" shown in cattery?
(12-20-2018 03:22 AM)Arwen Swordthain Wrote:  So I had a look back and found a Genesis - Flame dated 4th November 2011. A bit of research showed that the pedigree family tree system launched in June 2011 so I'd guess box dates were available then since I can't find anything specific in the update history regarding birth dates. The online cattery launched in April 2012.
So my guess is that either Tad is right and its a bug, I have a few boxes myself that lost pedigree info during that big crash a couple years ago, or Birth dates were introduced in June 2011 with the pedigree system and your boxes predate that.

Maybe people could take a look back and see if they can find any old boxes that predate the pedigree system launch in June 2011, might be fun to see who can find the oldest box Smile

I have 6 boxes in my cattery with the "unknown" birth date. They're red tabby and silver/white tabby kittens that I've been hanging onto since my earliest days of breeding (I began in April 2011). My oldest box with a birth date dates to Oct. 6, 2011. I don't think the unknown date is a bug. I think it just marks boxes that were born before the pedigree page went live. Hope this helps. Smile
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12-27-2018, 08:49 AM (This post was last modified: 12-27-2018 09:00 AM by Tad Carlucci.)
Post: #10
RE: How old is a cat with no "bred date" shown in cattery?
It's not a program-error bug, nor a database-crashed bug. It's a design-oversight bug.

The date can be fairly well guessed by KittyCatS since they can look at the cats just before and just after in the ID sequence and find the next-oldest and next-youngest cats with Ages. This is how I used to do it, they just have more data than I did. First, you look forward in time for the cat with the earliest date, that sets a hard upper limit on the date for the box in question. Then you look backward in time eliminating all cats older than any cat following it. The oldest of those left gives a most-probable lower limit. In my experience, this will yield a resulting range of just a few hours. I used to have a large dataset I could use for this sort of analysis but it went away years ago. I never got around to decoding the mod-16 check digit, so I didn't have the exact ID number like KittyCatS does, but the few times Charm asked, I could place one of her boxes dates to within a day or so with very high confidence.
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