New fur! Tiger Lavender

[AngharadTruthsayer Resident]

Does he have to hide Lavender? I have a young male tiger who is Lavender but hides either Burmilla lilac shaded or Toyger Caramel I believe.

[Arwen Swordthain]

(08-24-2018 05:22 AM)AngharadTruthsayer Resident Wrote:  Does he have to hide Lavender? I have a young male tiger who is Lavender but hides either Burmilla lilac shaded or Toyger Caramel I believe.

A hider will potentially give a faster answer if she gets back either Bengal Blue or Burmilla Red but if she gets back Lavender she will have to pop the hid to check anyway. With a shown Lavender the baby will have toi have its hid checked regardless of fur shown.

Shannon, I have one potential Lavender hider but since hes a Burmilla Chocolate Silver Shaded pulling it will render all other Lavender tests moot anyway

[Arwen Swordthain]

Popped and opened for checking. Cailey hides Toyger - Coal.

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(07-17-2018 10:23 AM)MsMagick Resident Wrote:  

(07-17-2018 04:08 AM)Arwen Swordthain Wrote:  Can you provide proof of purity of the Bengal - Blue please. Impossible to update charts without it I'm afraid. If you can't show its pure then only way to be certain is to pull the hid from the Lavender

Oh, true. Duh! I was so happy to show it off that I wasn't thinking. I've been breeding that line for months/generations, but did buy at least one of the original kitties. From my experience the only fur that line is hiding is Toyger - Caramel, and he is hiding it (pulled once with another Bengal Blue from the same line), but I haven't directly tested him. Maybe later.

Did you ever test the Lavender kitty to see what it hid?

[ShannonSpoonhunter Resident]

Yes, I was hoping someone might even want to breed a starter that hides lavender -- if it doesn't throw genesis, we'd have an answer on the first try.

(08-24-2018 09:50 AM)Arwen Swordthain Wrote:  

(08-24-2018 05:22 AM)AngharadTruthsayer Resident Wrote:  Does he have to hide Lavender? I have a young male tiger who is Lavender but hides either Burmilla lilac shaded or Toyger Caramel I believe.

A hider will potentially give a faster answer if she gets back either Bengal Blue or Burmilla Red but if she gets back Lavender she will have to pop the hid to check anyway. With a shown Lavender the baby will have toi have its hid checked regardless of fur shown.

Shannon, I have one potential Lavender hider but since hes a Burmilla Chocolate Silver Shaded pulling it will render all other Lavender tests moot anyway

[AngharadTruthsayer Resident]

Did a Lavender Tiger to Tonkinese Blue Mink to help narrow the field....hope this helps. If I need to breed any of his offspring (I now have three...two from a cross with a Bubblegum and one from this breeding), let me know and I will plan it out. I can't figure out how to get pictures onto the forum but here is the dropbox link.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zy23svz7w1l2gur/Lavender%20Tiger%20to%20Tonkinese%20Blue%20Mink.jpg?dl=0


Note: I have a Lavender to a Burmilla Chocolate Silver Shaded breeding in the next couple of days.

[Arwen Swordthain]

(08-27-2018 07:04 PM)AngharadTruthsayer Resident Wrote:  Did a Lavender Tiger to Tonkinese Blue Mink to help narrow the field....hope this helps. If I need to breed any of his offspring (I now have three...two from a cross with a Bubblegum and one from this breeding), let me know and I will plan it out. I can't figure out how to get pictures onto the forum but here is the dropbox link.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zy23svz7w1l2gur/Lavender%20Tiger%20to%20Tonkinese%20Blue%20Mink.jpg?dl=0


Note: I have a Lavender to a Burmilla Chocolate Silver Shaded breeding in the next couple of days.

reposting for you so its easier to see



This baby if it hides the Blue Mink will place this fur so would you be able to open her and pull the hid, any fur from Toyger - Tawny down will do the job, its best not to use a fur still within the test range in case the Blue Mink is not whats hiding. The Blue Mink looks solid but recessives can pass hid for many generations so its best to check. Good Luck with what could be a placement proof.

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Oh I just looked at the ages of the Blue Mink parents. The Father is 886 days old so I checked back and that means he was opened around 16th March 2016, Burmilla - Chocolate Shaded was discovered on 2nd February 2016 all other furs more recessive were not yet found. Can you post Azkedelias pedigree please if the parents box opening predates the discovery of Burmilla - Chocolate Silver shaded then we won't need anything else as this will place the Tiger! - Lavender.
Can someone else please double check my findings please. Looks to me like the blue mink may well have been the most recessive fur at the time this line was breeding making it pure.

[AngharadTruthsayer Resident]

(08-28-2018 03:01 AM)Arwen Swordthain Wrote:  [quote='AngharadTruthsayer Resident' pid='130824' dateline='1535418280']

This baby if it hides the Blue Mink will place this fur so would you be able to open her and pull the hid, any fur from Toyger - Tawny down will do the job, its best not to use a fur still within the test range in case the Blue Mink is not whats hiding. The Blue Mink looks solid but recessives can pass hid for many generations so its best to check. Good Luck with what could be a placement proof.

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Oh I just looked at the ages of the Blue Mink parents. The Father is 886 days old so I checked back and that means he was opened around 16th March 2016, Burmilla - Chocolate Shaded was discovered on 2nd February 2016 all other furs more recessive were not yet found. Can you post Azkedelias pedigree please if the parents box opening predates the discovery of Burmilla - Chocolate Silver shaded then we won't need anything else as this will place the Tiger! - Lavender.
Can someone else please double check my findings please. Looks to me like the blue mink may well have been the most recessive fur at the time this line was breeding making it pure.

Here is the dropbox link to her pedigree.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9vrogg78m7vxygf/Azkadellia.jpg?dl=0



   

[Ivy Norsk]

Okay, I looked at Angharad's pedigree for the Tonkinese Blue Mink mom Azkadilia.
Some dates: Tonk blue mink was discovered (by Dottie Idlemind) on the 21st of May 2015. It was the new most recessive fur on the grid.
As Arwen said, and I confirm, Fabioazevedo Oh discovered the Burmilla Chocolate Silver Shaded on Feb 2 2016 from a Winter 2015 cat.

Let's break Azkadelia's line into the 2 branches.
The mother sarita had 2 parents (bacon and anita) who are 908 and 907 days old. That means that they were birthed around March 3d and 5th 2016. In other words, they were birthed a month after the discovery of the Burm CSS. It becomes a hazy thing … could the breeders have gotten a brand new Burm CSS at auction and bred it in? It’s probably not likely but it’s theoretically possible.

The father gilton has parents (abel and 9T TBL,Ob,Prc, Fluf - a cat that was bred by Fabioazevedo Oh the self-same discoverer of the Burmilla CSS). These cats are both born Feb 4th 2016, 2 days after the discovery of the Burm CSS. These cats were birthed when the newest Burm CSS kitten would have been 2 days old and even though one of them came from Fabio’s own Cattery, there is no way that the Burm CSS could have gotten into the line.

It is very likely (99%???) that Azkadilia is pure tonkinese blue mink. There basically a 2 week period when someone could have bought a Burm CSS at auction or more likely a hider (if Fabio already had one to sell which is a big if) and incorporated it into the tonk blue line.
This one comes down to credibility.
Still, Angharad, you should pull the hidden on that lavender kitten just to dot the i’s and cross the t’s.

[AngharadTruthsayer Resident]

(08-28-2018 07:20 AM)Ivy Norsk Wrote:  Still, Angharad, you should pull the hidden on that lavender kitten just to dot the i’s and cross the t’s.

Okay I'm on it....unpacking the kitten now....

[Ivy Norsk]

My mind is still whirling around the "what-ifs" of Fabio's Cattery given that one of the cats came from there.
The Burm CSS would have been loaded into the Winter 2015 cats. Fabio would have been trying to pull furs.. with a tonk blue mink as it was most recessive.. and getting tonk blue mink back. He might have been producing hiders from around the second week of January 2016. And one would have made a successful backbreed. But he could have sold offspring of the others or the hiders themselves. This pushes the credible date for producing hiders back into January. Still, 9T TBL is a 9T fully formed cat, not a lower-traited cat that you would expect to find coming from a starter backbreed.
Yeah, no. I don't think 9T TBL can be hiding Burmilla CSS, if only because it is a 9T with fully established traits... had to be a predating line that Fabio had.