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Pricing: Food for thought!
03-04-2017, 02:07 PM (This post was last modified: 03-04-2017 05:01 PM by TerrorMisu Resident.)
Post: #1
Lightbulb Pricing: Food for thought!

I wanted to share this link because I feel it has some very relevant information regarding pricing your Kittycats. It is my hope you find something of value in this read that might add to your success in the market! Hang in there!

All the best,

Terrormisu

http://www.instigatorblog.com/be-careful-about-devaluing-what-you-offer/2006/05/22/

~terrormisu

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03-04-2017, 07:15 PM
Post: #2
RE: Pricing: Food for thought!
Skimming thought that it has some seriously fatal flaws in this case. The number one fatal flaw being! Supply and Demand! Kitty cats has hit a point now that supply far far outweighs demand. I would even go as far as saying for every 200-300 kitty boxes produced there is 1-2 buyers. I would even go as far as saying that the market has hit rock bottom. In a market like that there is no way to really raise pricing! At this point if Producer X wants to make a profit off or most likely wants to just sell and recoup some cost. They have to lower their prices to offer extra incentive for me the consumer to choose them over the 200-300 other exact same cats! Thus the price drops like a rock!

A great example of this is the confetti cats! They have recently dropped to prices that were unheard of this time last year! The reason people got tired of the gambling and decided to no longer buy into them. There are still a select few breeders that find confetti desireable! But The supply has far far outstripped the damned for them. Thus the price has hit rock bottom! ((took meh over 2 weeks to sell a teacup confetti at 1,250 lindens!)).

I be blunt the main cause of this market collapse is due to people that are for profit! They heard about breedables they heard about horses, fennux, and kittycats. They decided to buy in and try to make a quick profit! Doing so they bought obscene number of cats and bred them for what they thought would be traits that would be worth money! Saturated the market! The same happens to any popular trait toyger for instance! People wanted that fur for a while it was going for 5-6k easily! Lately it can be found for 1-2k cause the market became saturated with the fur because people started producing it like crazy to make as much money as they could.

There no profit really in kittycats the most anyone can hope for is to make enough to feed the cats they keep and want to keep!. Pricing your kitties higher isn’t really going to help the market at all all it will do is bring in more people who will see a chance to make a quick buck by undercutting others!

I just wanted to point this out because its a touchy subject and here pricing a lot! I don’t think people really think about how over saturated the markets really are and how many kitties are up for offer! I mean it be nice to make a profit or even a little kibble money from kitties but its just not possible!

Another thing hurting the sales is the issues as of late with everything from the community to the servers! This has driven people away made others stagnant thus there are even fewer buyers in the market. I really don’t want to get into all that thought cause at the end of the day! The kitties to meh are about the community, my friends, and the kitties themselves! I could careless about making a profit off them if I do great if I don’t great! As long as they continue to count meh as their Goddess and vote Arella thats what matters to meh personally!.

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03-04-2017, 07:50 PM
Post: #3
RE: Pricing: Food for thought!
I thought the article was a good one. I see 2 main issues.

The first is supply and demand as Jennifer has already gone through. Although, here we need to tackle 2 types of cats separately: regular cats, which are of unlimited supply and Limited Edition Collection cats. The supply there is by definition limited, though while some cats are certainly rare, even the rarest do seem to pop up on the market every now and then. Right now many of the LE cats are selling around $1500. This price ought to rise over time and the cats from the very beginning do seem to be priced higher, but not as high as one might suppose given their limited availability. So I think they run into the "What the Market Will Bear" issue. Most Second Life hobbyists don't want to spend the lindens over a certain level for even a very rare cat. (Especially for an item made of pixels in a Virtual World that may not stick around.)

The other thing I see though as I walk around marketplaces is that while the markets are stuffed, they're often stuffed with mediocre cats. I generally (but not always) end up buying from a few breeders whose names I have known for a long time. That's not favoritism or by accident. The truth is that while many people are charmed by the darling cats, relatively few people breed them by design. If you were to put KittyCatS participants on a bell curve of intent, the vast majority are happy to bop cats together who have their favorite furs or eyes and hope for the best and stick the kittens out for sale. The breeders who really know how to line up a breed by design are waaaay out on one end of the bell curve. And their cats are better. Truth. Coordinated showns and hiddens, and my goodness it takes a lot of kibble and patience to get those results. And the market simply doesn't support that. Because people who do shop don't seem to be particularly picky either. They just don't care. Or they just don't buy that many cats. And all the cats ARE cute. You don't need to buy a 9T super cat to have fun with it.

Also, breeding is so full of hits and misses. When I consider the cats out at my own shop, a lot of them missed. They are hiding a great whisker but showing a stupid mysterious whisker, or something like that. I could menagerie all my misses, and who knows, maybe some day I will.

How do we move forward? I don't really know. The Confettis were meant to suck up the extra cats, but as a system/game the reward rate is too low, and people who don't care all that much about the fine points of breeding are scared of them. They just steer clear. And I can't blame them.

Pushing better breeding expectations might help. Featuring really well-designed cats (not just most recessive) might help. What do I mean by "featuring"? I don't exactly know. Auctions feature such cats. But auction attendance isn't that great either and I, myself haven't done auctions in a while. Something to brainstorm...

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03-05-2017, 05:51 AM (This post was last modified: 03-05-2017 06:19 AM by TerrorMisu Resident.)
Post: #4
RE: Pricing: Food for thought!
Hi Ivy! Thanks for reading the article! Your positive feedback is appreciated and now you have given me some food for thought! And your reference to the "bell curve" makes perfect sense and has helped me to understand our differences. Well done!
(03-04-2017 07:50 PM)Ivy Norsk Wrote:  The other thing I see though as I walk around marketplaces is that while the markets are stuffed, they're often stuffed with mediocre cats. I generally (but not always) end up buying from a few breeders whose names I have known for a long time. That's not favoritism or by accident. The truth is that while many people are charmed by the darling cats, relatively few people breed them by design. If you were to put KittyCatS participants on a bell curve of intent, the vast majority are happy to bop cats together who have their favorite furs or eyes and hope for the best and stick the kittens out for sale. The breeders who really know how to line up a breed by design are waaaay out on one end of the bell curve. And their cats are better. Truth. Coordinated showns and hiddens, and my goodness it takes a lot of kibble and patience to get those results. And the market simply doesn't support that. Because people who do shop don't seem to be particularly picky either. They just don't care. Or they just don't buy that many cats. And all the cats ARE cute. You don't need to buy a 9T super cat to have fun with it.


Thanks Jennifer for your reply! You are right! It has been my experience, after four years of breeding, there is NO profilt! LOL It really is all about fun, friends, and epic cats!

I posted the article link because I get a lot of IMs from novice breeders asking for help pricing kitties. In such a fluctuating market its difficult to suggest prices. The best I can do is to share my own experiences and pass on helpful information. Happy Breeding!

(03-04-2017 07:15 PM)JenniferShelby Resident Wrote:  There no profit really in kittycats the most anyone can hope for is to make enough to feed the cats they keep and want to keep!.

~terrormisu

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03-06-2017, 12:27 AM
Post: #5
RE: Pricing: Food for thought!
Thank you for the insight, Ivy. I have never bred to sell, but I do try to breed for specific combinations and "looks". I honestly wish that we had cat shows (for fun of course) that looked for the truly beautiful and/or unusual combinations, and not simply for the newest or most recessive traits. Indeed, there are a few REALLY good breeders out there, and they regularly produce well crafted 9T cats with amazing genetics. I bet that breeders of this caliber would be very qualified judges for a show cat. Perhaps I am just too excited by the fun of shows like Westminster for dogs, and I would love to see a show with the best of solid KC breeding (even if some of the prettiest traits are "old").

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03-07-2017, 02:27 AM
Post: #6
RE: Pricing: Food for thought!
I thought I'd throw my two cents into this Big Grin

I am not really sure the stagnation has anything to really do with the servers. Yes, it's a pain when they go down, but, at the same time, everything goes down once in a while. Every breedable, even SL itself has issues. For that matter, one's own private internet connection will sometimes have issues. There are too many variables for that not to happen. Different routers, providers, etc...

One thing i have to say about pricing. I always believed, if you are in it to make big money, then breedables are just not the way to go. No matter what. In every breedable out there, like Jennifer said, there is a lot of supply. However, I think there is more to it...

I touched on this on another topic. I hate to say this, because I really really REALLY love these cats. But honestly, at the end of the day, am I really going to spend 40 RL dollars on a virtual cat.... Keeping in mind that 40 dollars will feed me for several days.... It will put two tanks of gas in my car. It will purchase for me, 2+ full video games. Granted, there are rich people out there... But I think a lot of people in SL are like me. Living day to day, hoping they will have enough money IRL.... lol

But then, there are other issues when it comes to buying cats in SL.... If you are like me, you are buying your cat with the intention to keep said cat, and not menagerie.... So this means, in addition to the cost of the cat, you have to tack on yet another 1,500L to permapet said cat..... add 300 more L if you permapet that cat before it reaches 120 days old. So, when one purchases a cat, they are not just purchasing the cat for X amount of cost, but then they have to tack on an additional 1,500L for said cat (at least).

I personally would really like to see KittyCats do what other breedables are doing... Once the cat reaches a certain age, it auto permapets for free.... If they do this, this will make KittyCats much more enjoyable, more affordable, and more attractive to people (as they won't be saying, "if I want to keep this cat, I have to fork over another 1,500L for a cat I spent 4,000 for!") If not free, then reduce the price significantly. Maybe raise perma to 2,000, and lower perma 120 to an affordable 400L or something like that. Maybe even keep it the same as it is now, but make the cats auto permapet at 200 days of age (they can even make it 200 days of age of eating).

I personally have a store. However, I only have a store to sell the surplus of cats that I have that I will never birth. I breed for megapuss. Which means I breed the same cats together until I get the megapuss that I want. That is just how I do it. I do not breed for profit. In fact, for a long time, I refused to sell any in fear they would be menageried. However, it hit me, that it is better to take that risk, then to keep all these cats in boxes forever. So, I sell the ones that I have a lot of extra of, and know that I will be making more of in order to get the mega that I want so badly.
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03-08-2017, 04:57 AM
Post: #7
RE: Pricing: Food for thought!
Yes, each Permapet Potion costs at least 6 RL dollars. So you are adding 6 to that 40 dollar kitty... Not to mention, if you have more cats you want to permapet, as many do, that is 6 times the amount of cats you have. And that is figuring 120 permapet, the other is 300L more, which is about 1.50 USD


(03-07-2017 02:27 AM)JessicaArianaHamby Resident Wrote:   I thought I'd throw my two cents into this Big Grin

I am not really sure the stagnation has anything to really do with the servers. Yes, it's a pain when they go down, but, at the same time, everything goes down once in a while. Every breedable, even SL itself has issues. For that matter, one's own private internet connection will sometimes have issues. There are too many variables for that not to happen. Different routers, providers, etc...

One thing i have to say about pricing. I always believed, if you are in it to make big money, then breedables are just not the way to go. No matter what. In every breedable out there, like Jennifer said, there is a lot of supply. However, I think there is more to it...

I touched on this on another topic. I hate to say this, because I really really REALLY love these cats. But honestly, at the end of the day, am I really going to spend 40 RL dollars on a virtual cat.... Keeping in mind that 40 dollars will feed me for several days.... It will put two tanks of gas in my car. It will purchase for me, 2+ full video games. Granted, there are rich people out there... But I think a lot of people in SL are like me. Living day to day, hoping they will have enough money IRL.... lol

But then, there are other issues when it comes to buying cats in SL.... If you are like me, you are buying your cat with the intention to keep said cat, and not menagerie.... So this means, in addition to the cost of the cat, you have to tack on yet another 1,500L to permapet said cat..... add 300 more L if you permapet that cat before it reaches 120 days old. So, when one purchases a cat, they are not just purchasing the cat for X amount of cost, but then they have to tack on an additional 1,500L for said cat (at least).

I personally would really like to see KittyCats do what other breedables are doing... Once the cat reaches a certain age, it auto permapets for free.... If they do this, this will make KittyCats much more enjoyable, more affordable, and more attractive to people (as they won't be saying, "if I want to keep this cat, I have to fork over another 1,500L for a cat I spent 4,000 for!") If not free, then reduce the price significantly. Maybe raise perma to 2,000, and lower perma 120 to an affordable 400L or something like that. Maybe even keep it the same as it is now, but make the cats auto permapet at 200 days of age (they can even make it 200 days of age of eating).

I personally have a store. However, I only have a store to sell the surplus of cats that I have that I will never birth. I breed for megapuss. Which means I breed the same cats together until I get the megapuss that I want. That is just how I do it. I do not breed for profit. In fact, for a long time, I refused to sell any in fear they would be menageried. However, it hit me, that it is better to take that risk, then to keep all these cats in boxes forever. So, I sell the ones that I have a lot of extra of, and know that I will be making more of in order to get the mega that I want so badly.
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03-09-2017, 09:56 PM (This post was last modified: 03-09-2017 10:00 PM by Oselkhandro Resident.)
Post: #8
RE: Pricing: Food for thought!
JessicaArianaHamby Resident said "I personally would really like to see KittyCats do what other breedables are doing... Once the cat reaches a certain age, it auto permapets for free.... If they do this, this will make KittyCats much more enjoyable, more affordable, and more attractive to people (as they won't be saying, "if I want to keep this cat, I have to fork over another 1,500L for a cat I spent 4,000 for!") If not free, then reduce the price significantly. Maybe raise perma to 2,000, and lower perma 120 to an affordable 400L or something like that. Maybe even keep it the same as it is now, but make the cats auto permapet at 200 days of age (they can even make it 200 days of age of eating)."

I agree with Jessica. I recently discovered another brand of breedable that permapets for free as soon as the pet breeds out. I was so thrilled that I literally whooped for joy. I LOVE my cats, but in truth, it is becoming much more financially attractive to shift over to dogs, knowing that if I love the dog, I can keep him forever as long as I leave out an empty food bowl. I have a dozen or more kitties sitting sick in my inventory because I cannot justify spending the Lindens to Permapet them or to keep feeding them. I refuse to "kill" them in the Menagerie, because these are beautiful sweet kitties who have done well for me. Please, KittyCatS, consider helping out those of us who get attached to our cats but who are not wealthy in real life (my husband wants me to stop KC all together, because it requires so much $ per month)

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04-08-2017, 04:27 PM (This post was last modified: 04-09-2017 11:38 AM by Evolving Yin.)
Post: #9
RE: Pricing: Food for thought!
(03-09-2017 09:56 PM)Oselkhandro Resident Wrote:  Please, KittyCatS, consider helping out those of us who get attached to our cats but who are not wealthy in real life (my husband wants me to stop KC all together, because it requires so much $ per month)

I agree! I have dozens of collector kitties in my inventory too that I cannot afford to perma-pet and it is frustrating.

As far as pricing, I used to own a doll & bear collectible store and one thing I learned about selling collectibles is that a collectible is only worth what a collector is willing to pay for it. I always research a cat before I put it on the market, and start my price at whatever seems to be the most recent market price.

However, if a LIVE cat sits and I am paying rent on a pillow, for food to feed it, and it is dropping in value because it is aging. It is time to mark it down. I cannot afford to continue to just let it sit and drain money especially when I am no longer breeding it. I figure if a live cat is sitting too long and not selling than I have it marked to high for the market, and I will mark it down to try and recover some of my loss. I do have a formula that I determine at what price it is best to just cut my losses and menagerie the cat.

However, boxed cats, and perma petted collectibles are very different since they are not costing anything other than prims and in some cases rent to maintain. Moving boxed and collector kitties fast is not a priority for me, so I think this article applies more to boxed cats and collector cats in that sense.

I have given up trying to make any money on the cats. I breed and collect because I enjoy it, and sell to try to recover some of the loss; but it is still an expensive hobby.

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04-13-2017, 08:17 AM (This post was last modified: 04-13-2017 08:23 AM by doubledareme Resident.)
Post: #10
RE: Pricing: Food for thought!
I think the value of the kitty cat has changed tremendously because we are still selling average cats. I know a lot think beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but those shoppers look far and wide to find what they are after. Someone passing a store or looking in the two markets (profilers) online are specifically hunting for traits or looking for a spectacular kitty. As an auctioneer I see a lot of nice cats at auction. I also see people trying to sell what ever they get no matter how good the box. The problem with breeding a cat that everyone else has is just that, everyone else has it. What makes yours special if it has the same traits as everyone else's. I suggest breeding for beauty, mix up traits, don't try to sell your less than perfect cats while you tuck the best box away for yourself. This is going to sound harsh but get rid of your shitty cats. Send cats to menagerie...send boxes to menagerie. When you breed two cats and get the pair of kittens you are looking for, especially if they are much better, get rid of the old and open the new. If everyone would menagerie ordinary cats, the 3 4 5 6 7 t's that they are not using to trait up 8 and 9 traited then we wouldn't have so many cats that EVERYONE else does on the market. The other thing is, is stop expecting to feed your cats from the profits of selling a cat if you have 300 opened in your cattery. It's ridiculous to think that others in this market are responsible for feeding your cats. It is nice to sell, and it is nice to make some of the return off of newer traits etc, but its not ok to put prices so ridiculously high that no body can afford them, or so ridiculously low that you devalue a cat. Listen if you are trying to sell it for 100 lindens, then look at the cat...what is special about it? If it were special, you wouldn't be selling it for 100L... I have over 2500 boxes in my cattery, I sell a few boxes a month, mostly at auctions, and all of my boxes for the most part (99%) are 9t but I still won't just put one of them in an auction. I like them because they are my cats but they are not exceptional or overwhelmingly special. I only put out my exceptional ones into my store or at auction. Get better at your breeding (not intended to one person or other specifically) breed for quality not quantity, and stop trying to make money off other people. This is supposed to be a game not a job. Those few things should get the market running again. There was a time even 3 years ago that exceptional cats (considering traits out then) were all you saw around. Seeing 16 kittys cookie cutter kittys from two 7 t parents lined up in a store with a price tag on them was not so common. And one more time. MENAGERIE your excess. It sounds harsh, but people as much as I get attached to certain cats, these are pixels, and we need to remember that the sentiment that we attach to them is really not helping anyone in the long run. Thats just my two cents. Oh and one more thing. Patron the stores and auctions where cats are sold for reasonable prices...stop encouraging people to bargain basement prices by attending auctions and buying at stores that reduce to nothing. That will help the market too.

(03-09-2017 09:56 PM)Oselkhandro Resident Wrote:  JessicaArianaHamby Resident said "I personally would really like to see KittyCats do what other breedables are doing... Once the cat reaches a certain age, it auto permapets for free.... If they do this, this will make KittyCats much more enjoyable, more affordable, and more attractive to people (as they won't be saying, "if I want to keep this cat, I have to fork over another 1,500L for a cat I spent 4,000 for!") If not free, then reduce the price significantly. Maybe raise perma to 2,000, and lower perma 120 to an affordable 400L or something like that. Maybe even keep it the same as it is now, but make the cats auto permapet at 200 days of age (they can even make it 200 days of age of eating)."

I agree with Jessica. I recently discovered another brand of breedable that permapets for free as soon as the pet breeds out. I was so thrilled that I literally whooped for joy. I LOVE my cats, but in truth, it is becoming much more financially attractive to shift over to dogs, knowing that if I love the dog, I can keep him forever as long as I leave out an empty food bowl. I have a dozen or more kitties sitting sick in my inventory because I cannot justify spending the Lindens to Permapet them or to keep feeding them. I refuse to "kill" them in the Menagerie, because these are beautiful sweet kitties who have done well for me. Please, KittyCatS, consider helping out those of us who get attached to our cats but who are not wealthy in real life (my husband wants me to stop KC all together, because it requires so much $ per month)
I love KittyCats, but that is one of my pet peeves, the cost of perma petting , and the fact that the price of food is still a little high for my liking. I don't think that it should cost to permapet. If I have paid for food and milk for 120 days then I have more than paid for my right to have it be a permapet when it turns 120.
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