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TerrorMisu Resident · (This post was last modified: 01-14-2017 12:58 PM by TerrorMisu Resident.)

Right on Mirsoul! I told him the same things! Except I likened it to GASOLINE! LOL Scripters could learn a lot from us,if they would listen! lol Tongue

(01-14-2017 12:08 PM)Mirsoul Resident Wrote: Well actually tools being used do not determine a free market...a free market is defined as a system in which the prices for goods and services are determined by the open market and the consumers in that market (which would be any KittyCats Breeder or Collector), in which the laws and forces of supply and demand are free from any intervention (which is true we all set our own prices) by a government, price-setting monopoly, or other authority. So while to tool may not be used by everyone in SL, the use of the website does not harm the free market. Now I do agree that to force pricing is not a good thing, it needs to be opted out of for those that do not wish their prices known.

I liken it to this: Lets look at the price of Milk. Almost every store carries it, and in different varieties. No one shouts out their prices, we depend on what we consider "regular" prices or an informed purchase. Now if a store is selling it cheaper we have no idea, thus we do not have the freedom to decide where to purchase as we are dependent on the prices that we are used to. We are also creatures of habit and purchase from the same store all the time. So I enjoyed the price option, but to force it is a bad idea.

Charmayne Brentley · 01-14-2017, 12:48 PM

Well, without the Webmarket, we are just blindly searching hundreds of markets and stalls, to find the cat we want? I am sorry, Callie, but this makes me so aggrevated and sick to my stomach.

Ivy Norsk · 01-14-2017, 12:57 PM

Traffic may be lower on the KittyMarket sims, but that may be because this tool allows people to buy efficiently. It does not mean that sales have gone down.

As for lower prices... KittyCats still has the perpetual issue of supply and demand. There is still an ever-increasing supply of cats on the grid. That has nothing to do with the profilers.

kittyclawz Resident · 01-14-2017, 01:05 PM

I have to say its not fair that Rene has been using Callie's pictures without consent i understand he has been asking but never been given the answer whether he is aloud so callie has every right to ask rene to stop what he's doing but on the other hand i did find the market very useful to find what im looking for due to sl these days and the lag it makes it hard to search, i will miss the market for being so easy to use but i do hope callie maybe creates her own market which will be useful since "kittycats" is her own creation, does make me wonder whether build a cat will be down next if the person who created that has permissions but furthermore i send my thanks to rene for helping us breeders make it easier to find the kitties we wanted to breed but then im sending my love to callie for everything she does in the end of the day she is protecting her product and i have respect for that..

Tad Carlucci · 01-14-2017, 01:11 PM

The claim that posting prices is against the free market is ridiculous. It makes me think the OP completely misunderstood the issue.

Anyone can put up a web page listing traits, locations and prices and there really is nothing KittyCats can say about it.

The problem is the way the profilers work, scraping the information directly from the KittyCatS web site and storing it in a database is, at best, a marginal practice. Frankly, I'm amazed they allowed their use for so long.

The issue as I see it is not what the profilers and the web site do so much as how they go about doing it. There are alternatives which completely avoid any issues KittyCatS might have.

Frankly, how the profilers and web site work is NOT KittyCats' problem; but the poor design of those third-party products makes it so. I'm sure when KittyCatS makes a change to the web site which breaks the profilers or market website, they receive a number of complaints.

I don't see it as a problem with the concept but more a problem with approach. Shutting down is one way to solve the issue, and certainly is easy. But a better systems design would avoid impacting KittyCatS and their issues with these third-party systems.

sneakpastu Resident · (This post was last modified: 01-14-2017 01:31 PM by sneakpastu Resident.)

I personally liked the web market - being able to browse for the traits I wanted without having to go to wander around aimlessly for hours. Some sims I can't wander around on - despite having a nice computer..I end up lag walking and that just frustrates me to no end. For me....breeding is somewhat of a hobby because I'm not in it to make L. I love the cats. Sorry to see this go because it was something I enjoyed using. I've found a lot of nice traits from using it.

Yes, I have the profilers and have sold quite a few because of the profiler.

I understand the infringing on the creation point of view, and I do have to respect someone asking someone else to stop.

doubledareme Resident · (This post was last modified: 01-14-2017 01:28 PM by doubledareme Resident.)

(01-14-2017 11:24 AM)fatimasimsmania Resident Wrote: i just read the notice in the kittycats on line market by rene... and it took me a long time to buy the profilers but sold kittys thanks to them that payed for the profiler in less than a week. IT HAS BEEN HELPFUL. ITS A WONDERFUL PRODUCT. and I Belive YOU ARE WRONG CALLIE and i am very disapointed in you kittycats owners for the very first time and iv been with kittycats since the start
IF YOU DONT WANT AN OUTSIDER TO HAVE THAT SUCH HELPFUL PRODUCT; PREDUCE IT YOURSELFS TO HELP US.
Rene. THANK YOU FOR YOUR HARD WORK. I BELIVE ITS AN AMAZING PRODUCT . I will be very disapointed if you take it down.

ARE YOU MISSING THE POINT THAT HE IS USING HER PRODUCT ILLEGALLY TO MAKE A MASSIVE PROFIT OFF OF PEOPLE WHO SHOULD BE SUPPORTING KITTYCATS NOT RENE? CALLIE IS KITTYCATS. IT IS OWNED BY HER. RENE HAS BEEN USING HER IMAGES ILLEGALLY FOR AGES AND ITS ABOUT TIME IT CAME TO A HEAD. I HOPE SHE SUES HIS ASS. WRONG IS WRONG. ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL. AND ITS HORRIBLE TO THINK THAT YOU ALL WANT TO SUPPORT SOMEONE THAT IS STEALING FROM THE KITTYCATS CREATOR???? WTF?

(01-14-2017 12:01 PM)CitizenMonday Resident Wrote: @Reven Roaca, that is an excellent point. Yes I had not considered that Rene was making the posting of prices mandatory. Personally I will post all my prices and I'll shop only stores which post their prices as well. My preference. However perhaps if Rene will allow posting or not, then Callie will allow the webmarket to continue.

However as to your second point...Free markets have always operated with advertising services which are provided for a fee and are not available to everyone. Or to word it another way, Rene's service is available to every seller who choses to pay for the profiler system, and for free to every buyer.

@Callie, thanks for weighing in and I'm happy to know you are following this thread as I consider it of vital importance to my continued enjoyment of the KittyCats! product.

except when you refuse to do it his way.... many people have had their profiler disabled with no refund when we would not be bullied by Rene.

MissSasha Topaz · 01-14-2017, 01:28 PM

Rene has become well known in the market for removing individuals from being able to use the profilers based upon their opinions even though they have paid to use the tool. You could say that Rene owns the servers and therefore controls the presentation of the data from his profilers. However, his data is dependent upon data from the KittyCats servers/website which is owned by KittyCats/Callie.
While the profiler tool is helpful to the market it can not be seen that KittyCats/Callie does not care about her customers. KittyCats/Callie must work to protect the brand ensuring that tools (e.g. profilers) and add-ons (e.g. hats, collars, etc) do not damage it.
KittyCats/Callie made a decision based upon the protection of the brand and legal basis that they feel they have. For that I respect and applaud them. Rene on the other hand has band people from utilizing products which they purchased based upon emotion and no legal standing. Once you remove the emotional factor (if you like or dislike the profilers) you see that both KittyCats/Callie and Rene made decisions to prevent use of their brand but Rene's decisions were always based on emotions.

Lyra Lyvette · 01-14-2017, 01:30 PM

Dear Callie Cline.

I will tell you my opinion about Rene Marseille's Web Market. This market is a very helpful instrument for us breeders.

Fact is:

No difference to selling KittyCatS! in the marketplace, I see the price in the marketplace, i see a image of the cat, used by us costumers made with the photo tool, uploaded for 10 L$, LL doesn't say thank you!!! The image is almost shit!

Now, I am walking around for example at Too Adorable. I should see the price from a cat, the image from this cat is not top secret, it is public. What is the different to Rene Marseille's Web Market?

What is a free market: Offer and need. We made the prices. It will make it simple to compare prices.

Please Callie,
allow this Web Market
LG, cym

Arwen Swordthain · 01-14-2017, 01:31 PM

I said on a different thread about a year ago that Rene was trying to control the secondary markets and I was attacked for it so stopped commenting on anything related to the profilers. This didn't stop him from banning me when Fabao suggested I use them to sell my Galaxy Stars and lent his to me to do just that.
I fully support Callie but I do feel that the legal differences between Rene Marseille and Callie Cline are just that, BETWEEN THEM! It is not something we should even have been dragged into and think this thread should be locked.