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Retired Traits? Any Interest out there?
07-09-2015, 09:57 AM
Post: #1
Smile Retired Traits? Any Interest out there?
Hello beautiful KittyCats breeders of SL Smile

I'm thinking about breeding a kittycat with all retired traits, with what I currently have in my cattery. Are you all still loving the retired traits and have you already bred an all retired kitty yet? I'm sure some of you have, and I would love to see your projects. I have a few ideas in mind of what I want to do. One of my fur types already has 3 retired on it, but I want to mix it with another fur that has more, to try to get all 9. I'd love to read your thoughts.

~Beryl

The Catbird Seat ~ Happily breeding since November 2013.
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07-09-2015, 10:58 AM
Post: #2
RE: Retired Traits? Any Interest out there?
Generally speaking I do not pay much attention to whether a trait is retired or not. Traits are like a paintbox to me and I breed with what I want to breed, which includes a lot of old and retired traits as well as new ones.

Speaking more specifically though: THERE IS NO VIRTUE IN BREEDING WITH MYSTERIOUS WHISKERS.
For YEARS now people have been breeding white mysterious whiskers in order to get their cats to that vaunted 9T sales point. Probably half the whiskers on the grid are white mysterious, maybe more than 50%. It is going to take YEARS of hard weeding by dedicated breeders all across the grid to eliminate mysterious as a trait to levels where it will be valuable and useful.

Yes, I know that in a recent thread, Tad talked about using GM and Mx traits (that's guitar-hiding-mysterious and mysterious-hiding-unknown) in order to pull pure traits. Yes, mysterious can be used that way - but that technique is a mere grace note amidst a sea of white mysterious cats being bumped willy nilly to little purpose.

Whiskers are the wow factor on a cat that shows the really good breeding. There are no good reasonably recessive retired whiskers. Nor are any whiskers other than mysterious in general use, though plush and guitar are quite common of course. 9T - when that 9T is achieved by white mysterious whiskers is not only not meaningful - it is shoddy.

Yes, I have cats with white mysterious whiskers in my stores. I am working hard to correct that deficiency. They are so endemic on so many cats. Of course white is a legitimate color and I wouldn't put anything else on my pinks and they really pop on the charcoal bengals (versus 2 tone which blends, but also looks great). But mysterious - burn it.

/rant

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07-09-2015, 11:31 AM
Post: #3
RE: Retired Traits? Any Interest out there?
Hi Ivy, I do agree. I have been trying to get White(Myst) minimized from my breedings as well. I was thinking Plush when I wrote this, only due to it also being retired. My store even has had "white whisker" sales at deeply discounted prices, (great cats but just wanted to get rid of some of those whisker combos in the traits) just to make something back, but potentially help someone that wanted a pet, or was just starting breeding.

Personally, I love Black whiskers even on pale kitties Smile Black whiskers with Tapestry Reef is especially gorgeous, in my opinion.

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07-09-2015, 01:06 PM
Post: #4
RE: Retired Traits? Any Interest out there?
I like plush whiskers too. They are cute and simple and naturalistic.

You know when I'm ranting like I was above, none of that applies to pets. Pets are what pets are and there are so many adorable cats that are just 2T or 4T or whatever. I keep plenty of those myself. And certainly white mysterious cats are good for learning breeding.
It's only when people are Setting Out to Breed - as a goal-driven activity - that I just think Mysterious -No.

Re: black whiskers on pale fur - you give me an excuse to post a picture of Ives. Contra the subject of the thread, he has No retired traits, but hey black on platinum.

[Image: 33bpgdd.jpg]

Cookiebroder (with silver doublestubby) photobombed.

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07-09-2015, 02:07 PM
Post: #5
RE: Retired Traits? Any Interest out there?
WOW! As a relatively new KittyCatS addict, I am still trying to learn which traits are "good" and which traits are undesirable. I have been trying to get my kittens up to 9T with cool furs and eyes, but I had no idea that whiskers were so important. Sigh....all those White/Mysterious mistakes in my cattery! Thanks for the rant though..now I can learn to improve! Are there any other traits I should be avoiding (other than Genesis)???
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07-09-2015, 02:17 PM
Post: #6
RE: Retired Traits? Any Interest out there?
Hmmm, FOUR LETTER WORD! It is so hard to get cats without those white mysterious whiskers! Kudos to those super breeders who have managed that feat. The whiskers always seemed so innocuous to me..and white usually blends well..so all those pretty cats need to be redone with something different.
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 Thanks given by: Beryl Landar , Ivy Norsk
07-09-2015, 03:04 PM (This post was last modified: 07-09-2015 03:05 PM by Beryl Landar.)
Post: #7
RE: Retired Traits? Any Interest out there?
Well, I do believe you should breed what you like (what you think is beautiful or trait combos that you enjoy seeing together). However, it truly does seem that there are many many white mysterious whiskers out there, not to mention silver and guitar lol...I have had success with 2 Tone Black and White, and some Blonde Streak, as well as Black, when trying to get something other than White. Once you get two of the same types of traits you like, try to breed those together, or at least, breed two together that have those traits in the pedigree. You are likely to get what you prefer. It is a challenge, but a fun one!

Morgan, feel free to IM me in world and I can help you as much as I can.
Ivy, that Kitty is ADORABLE!! Smile

(07-09-2015 01:06 PM)Ivy Norsk Wrote:  I like plush whiskers too. They are cute and simple and naturalistic.

You know when I'm ranting like I was above, none of that applies to pets. Pets are what pets are and there are so many adorable cats that are just 2T or 4T or whatever. I keep plenty of those myself. And certainly white mysterious cats are good for learning breeding.
It's only when people are Setting Out to Breed - as a goal-driven activity - that I just think Mysterious -No.

Re: black whiskers on pale fur - you give me an excuse to post a picture of Ives. Contra the subject of the thread, he has No retired traits, but hey black on platinum.

[Image: 33bpgdd.jpg]

Cookiebroder (with silver doublestubby) photobombed.

The Catbird Seat ~ Happily breeding since November 2013.
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 Thanks given by: Oselkhandro Resident , Ivy Norsk
07-09-2015, 03:32 PM
Post: #8
RE: Retired Traits? Any Interest out there?
The thing with the whiskers are that when Kittycats started we didn't have any whisker traits. AT ALL. So when they were added all cats already on the grid was granted the Silver Guitar as showing and White Mysterious as hidden. This is why there are so many of them out there. I don't think there is any shame in the White and Mysterious whiskers, it's proof that that cat comes from a very old breeding line and that in itself is special Smile
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07-09-2015, 04:31 PM
Post: #9
RE: Retired Traits? Any Interest out there?
It was not actually my intention to start a panic over mysterious whiskers. And yet, it's still true: we're drowning in white mysterious.

Morgan Wrote:I have been trying to get my kittens up to 9T with cool furs and eyes, but I had no idea that whiskers were so important. Sigh....all those White/Mysterious mistakes in my cattery! Thanks for the rant though..now I can learn to improve! Are there any other traits I should be avoiding (other than Genesis)???

Whiskers aren't necessarily so important to most people. Furs and eyes are what come first for the vast majority of people. And the next priority - for most people - seems to be getting the cat to 9T no matter what else. But there are lots of levels to KittyCatS. Whiskers are a Refinement. They show that the breeder is really looking at the cat and what traits really go with what other traits, and prove that the breeder can Make that Happen. And Oselkhandro has started a new thread on traits to avoid, so I suppose this discussion can go over there. I know Beryl wanted this to be a thread about retired traits and I seem to have hijacked it.

Breehid Wrote:Hmmm, FOUR LETTER WORD! It is so hard to get cats without those white mysterious whiskers! Kudos to those super breeders who have managed that feat. The whiskers always seemed so innocuous to me..and white usually blends well..so all those pretty cats need to be redone with something different.

Yes, it is hard to get cats without those white mysterious whiskers - and that's part of the problem. But the solution will snowball - the more people who take up the whisker challenge, the more variety of whiskers will be available in the markets. I had to specially advertise in the forum to get some chocolate whiskers. I do think that this will change.
But juggling more traits is more tricky, and I now, on account of hiddens on a cat, have a bunch of foxie soft blacks with chocolate whiskers - which doesn't go at ALL, but may be useful for breeding. We may see breeders begin to specialize in certain whisker/fur combos that work in order to make the juggling easier within their catteries. At least I would expect that would be the way it would work.

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07-10-2015, 08:12 AM
Post: #10
RE: Retired Traits? Any Interest out there?
I personally love many of the retired traits so I completely understand this! My favorite fur is Siamese Flame so I get it! I think I would love to mix some of the old traits with some of the new ones. I've been thinking of starting this project for myself for awhile now.

Your post reminded me of that so thank you!
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