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Kitty pricing!
04-28-2015, 08:12 PM (This post was last modified: 04-28-2015 08:31 PM by doubledareme Resident.)
Post: #61
RE: Kitty pricing!
I agree with the pricing issues of our kitty's but its not just one person that causes that problem. It is an issue across the board. Some of the problem lies with the breeders...some of it lies with KC with bringing out new traits so quickly...in my humble opinion. If it were not so easy to find a brand new trait the traits would retain prices. Also I do understand needing to liquidate. I have 3000 kitty boxes many of you have more. It is impossible to sell all our kittys at a premium price. And it is expensive to feed our live cats especially when we have more than 20 breeders and a sale is required occasionally. I think the golden rule applies here. If you don't want to pay too much don't over charge...if you think its horrible to sell a cat for 100 lindens don't do it. But honestly a 9T kitty is not that uncommon anymore and it really has to do with the traits. Im sorry but Im not paying 800 lindens for a triple mist foxie S&P with bellini eyes. Its ridiculous to think that it's still worth that. So it's a matter of either ALL sims and kittyCats coming together and setting a highly suggested min price ...keeping people from selling them so low (or high) on the sims (which is up to the owners of the sims) or the problem will remain.
The problem does NOT lie with the auctioneers. We do not decide what YOU sell a kitty cat for. We are there to serve the community and its none of my business what you sell your cat for. I can only suggest and the rest is up to you. I will NOT refuse to sell someones cats and therefore oust them from an auction. Sorry...that is just rude.
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04-29-2015, 06:54 AM (This post was last modified: 04-29-2015 07:01 AM by AstridSolace Resident.)
Post: #62
RE: Kitty pricing!
I think the issue of pricing has always been a contentious issue among KC breeders, since I've joined KC and before that. Hell, I have hundreds of cats for sale at any one time, thousands of boxes, and I'm sorry to say there isn't a queue at my door for them. In fact, I haven't yet had the slightest glimpse of an eager buyer on some noble pilgrimage to restore the market by buying my reasonably priced, dust collecting boxes, anywhere on my horizon. It seems the only chance I have now of selling anything is at the auctions, and consequently, not only do I put time, money and hopes into breeding my KittyCats, I also have to work just as hard to sell just one cat at a single auction, and I also pay another person to work hard as well to sell my cat at an auction, yet even at rock bottom starting bids they don't always sell, and it's not the auctioneer's fault, they work damn hard to sell my cat for a price closer to its true value. However, it's more of a matter of finding the right buyer at that time and place, if the buyer isn't there, and the timing isn't right, I might not get what I hoped for, problem is I am up against maybe 10 or more other beautifully bred cats, perhaps more desirable than mine, and there might be 15-30 people at a standard auction, and do they all come there to bid on my cat? No, often a small handful of the crowd will be bidding on any of the cats, as most come to sell only. Much of the time if I sell a cat at auction I come away buying one or two more from the same auction, and less $L in my pocket than before. I'm OK with that., because I enjoy the auctions and my purchases regardless of the outcome in my account. Well, we all know that KittyCats is the most popular breedable in SL, and there are more members and breeders than there has ever been before, but where are all the buyers? All shopping at that 100-200L store? I don't see people lining up there either. Maybe hiding in the bushes waiting to pounce on the next firesale? No, I seriously doubt that. It's never been easy for me, even when I started out a mere 2 years ago, sure there was one wonderful month or two where I sold at least one cat a week from my shop, but honestly since then and before then it's been as silent as the grave at all my stores, and I know I'm not alone in that. But since I'm a die-hard dreamer, and I continue to pay rent to display my KittyCats for sale endlessly hoping for that fabled buyer to emerge. Perhaps, they are not cheap enough, too expensive, or perhaps they are not what anyone wants to buy regardless of the price at this time and place, probably the latter in my case. I also don't advertise efficiently enough, so that's my fault too. But I love breeding KittyCats regardless of my depressing sales and empty bank account, but for me it's an addictive hobby not a business, and if some defatiguable breeders out there that have the foresight, stamina, optimism and the luck to actually make a profitable business from it, well good for them! Yeah, so once upon a time in a kingdom far, far away, breeders apparently made money, they sold like color TVs sold when they were invented. IMO, if KC only came out with small handful of traits per year, many people, such as myself would lose interest, because soon everybody would have those traits in the same sort of combinations in their cattery's. I might be one of the few, but I actually appreciate that KC releases so many new traits, I love the increased diversity of traits, especially knowing how hard it is now to breed truly unique KittyCats at this time. The question is what are most breeders preferring to buy? The newest or rarest or most recessive traits they believe will improve their own sales until the next new recessive trait comes out? Or a very complimentary combination of shown and hiding traits, regardless of recessiveness and newness, that make that cat extra special and unique to enjoy, and to breed from many generations to come?

I agree with Double's post above about new menagerie cat rewards, or even an improved reward system, maybe we could get more $K for a 9T cat, or a cat with newer traits, or even retired traits, more like a trait based points system. It could encourage more people to menagerie there unwanted 9Ts rather than sell them for 100L at firesales, also decreasing the amount of newer traits available on the secondary market. I've seen a quite a number of MEGAPUSS tigers for sale about the markets, some as low as 10k, that are still sitting there months later. I already have two perma-petted mega tigers, and I'm not sure I want to cash in my 15000 $K for a tiger nobody wants to pay a fair price for.
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04-29-2015, 08:02 PM
Post: #63
RE: Kitty pricing!
I will begin by explaining that I'm a very shy person who tends to keep to myself most of the time besides my husband.

When I discovered kittycats I fell in love. In real life I adore cats, and these little pixel cats are something special that really just always brings a smile to my face. It doesn't matter if they are all genesis traits or the most sought after traited cat around. I love them all because I think each are unique and beautiful in their own way just as human beings are. With that being said I will point out we are a diverse lot.

I can't really own to being accepted or part of the kittycat community since I stick to my kittycats, my personal goals regarding my kittycats, my small cart, and the fun I have discovering a cat I can't live without. I have done and still do a lot of reading on kittycats within these forums so I can learn as much as I can about breeding them. It is a rare occasion I will comment in the forums because as a few others have stated I haven't felt all that welcome in the community at times. I will say I have had nothing but positive experiences when dealing with the kittycat staff though! They are great!

I don't breed kittycats that have the newest or most desired traits. I breed kittycats with traits that I find appealing. My project isn't even that significant other than to myself in the fact I'm trying to get a combination of traits that I want really badly in a single kitten. I only breed one kittycat couple at a time since this is all I can afford, and besides I really like to think what my next move will be to refine my goal in pulling the traits I desire out of my cats. I'm sure my project won't be worth much to anyone else, but me. I don't mind that because I breed what makes me happy. I have a small cart I keep up with a few cats I'm selling and if others find as much joy in them as I do that is wonderful. If they don't that is alright to. I stick to a small budget so I don't get out of hand because I'm somewhat addicted to kittycats.

I put a lot of time and effort into my kittycats, but I'm not going to charge insane prices for them. I usually charge 50L per trait. I find that more than fair. Sometimes I also have a weekend sale where I do put them lower. Not because I'm trying to get them out and sold, but because I find it fun to shake things up a bit. This is my choice. I also sometimes give away kittycats as gifts to friends. I've gotten a lot of friends hooked on kittycats this way.

The point of my post is simple. Kittycats are something that are sweet and fun; and breeding, selling, and collecting them should embody that. It should be something we enjoy. It shouldn't get to the point where someone is called out for this or shamed publicly for that. Talk to the person privately, but to publicly hint by sending out little jabs at someone is petty. I'm sorry, but it is. I'm not addressing anyone in particular. I'm just sharing my thoughts on this thread.

If you see someone you feel isn't charging enough for their kittycats, don't purchase a cat from them. Same if you feel they charge too much. It really is that simple. Economy's fluctuate.

I'm not saying it is the greatest thing to be selling a kittycat for 30L, but it is the seller's choice to do so if that is what they feel they want to do. Just as it is the buyer's right to refuse to purchase from that seller.

This is supposed to be a community of people and sometimes it feels very cold to me. I find that sad since we are all unique and beautiful in our own way like the kittycats we love so much. We do have that in common. Our passion for kittycats should reflect in how we treat one another because this is a common ground we all share.

Again all of this is a very generalized use of "you" and "we" so please remember I'm not pointing any fingers or berating anyone. I just feel at times it is easy to lose sight of what really matters when tempers rise. Treating ourselves and one another with respect is the most important thing in any community. At least in my opinion it is.
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04-30-2015, 10:55 AM
Post: #64
RE: Kitty pricing!
I started breeding KittyCatS just a few months ago, when I got a Firestorm cat and an Advent cat. I was hooked instantly (I grew up in a home with 5 cats). In RL I am a marketing professor, so I knew from the start that breeding kitties to sell would not be a sustainable business since the supply of new kitten boxes FAR outstrips the demand. However, I very much admire the creativity of the KC people, who have incorporated principles of Gamification into their business to create a habituating, fun and engaging hobby for so many of us (in fact, I have been using KittyCatS as an example in my Consumer Behavior classes). Unfortunately, the price for a kitten box will be determined by demand; 100L 9Ts are the result. I wonder, though, if there might be other ways to create a market for "desirable" cats. In RL, people breed for beauty and perfection of the breed. I would LOVE it if we had "cat shows" with qualified judges who might look at kitties based upon the aesthetics of the trait combinations and the purity of the line (rather than just looking for the newest traits). I would be willing to pay more for a truly beautiful combination than I would for an unattractive kitty with new traits. This might open up a range of possibilities with older traits and forgotten traits.

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05-02-2015, 07:51 PM (This post was last modified: 05-02-2015 07:57 PM by Guenevere Amaranth.)
Post: #65
RE: Kitty pricing!
Hey guys!!

This is a really complicated issue with a lot of well-thought-out responses, and I don't know if I have anything to add that hasn't been said...but here's my personal experience.

When I was new to KittyCatS and considering breeding (which was only about 4 months ago; I know you guys have been around for many years, some of you!), I was lucky enough to make friends with a breeder leaving the business, and she sold me a few 8T and 9T pairs of middle-aged cats for 200L each, far less than they were worth. I also got to know some very lovely people who gave me a discount when I set about buying 9T cats. I decided early on I wanted to breed a certain type of cat, and not just the latest and greatest thing..but I wanted them to not only be worth something, but something that would make people HAPPY.

Months later and a lot of hours spent learning about KittyCatS and genetics and such, those original cats have 9T great-great-great grandchildren producing lines. I never could have done that if someone hadn't seen selling their KittyCatS to me when I was new. And if I hadn't cared or bothered to learn about the cats and just set out making random boxes, it wouldn't have worked out.

I now have a main store, some satellites, and a "pop-up clearance outlet". The clearance outlet does sell highly traited kittens I won't ever use and are not auction quality (just because you have 8 or 9 traits doesn't make them GOOD traits.) and the market says are not worth much now. I sell them extremely low, and many of my buyers are newbies who think they might want to breed but aren't sure they know what they're doing. Everyone has to start somewhere, and many contact us for breeding help, give gifts and kitties, and donate to the tip jar to keep it going. (Recently, I had to discontinue selling anything under 50L, because I refuse to sell kitties for the menagerie, and not everyone is so nice. Some of the people who bought these kitties have perma-pets now, or have become breeders. They're not selling MY cats, but it was an affordable basis for learning.

I look at it as good karma! People were so nice to me, so I want to pass that on...and when I see people abusing the system, it disappoints me. I think there is a different crowd at the pop-up outlet and main store, though. As my regulars get more into KittyCats, they are happy to pay $599 or 1K for a kitten in the main store, as opposed to snagging 100L cats all the time. Some people want the $29 wine that isn't as good, and some people want to spend a few hundred on a rare bottle. But even with all the money in the world, if you don't understand wine, that rare bottle isn't something you can appreciate. Better to enjoy the $29 wine while you learn!

The KittyCatS market is in a recession, along with most of the breedables. People are selling and buying at auction for very low prices, breeders say their store visits are down. Here's what I've noticed: People aren't buying more from the pop-up store because it's cheap, at least not anymore than from the regular store. A lot of people are leaving the hobby because KittyCatS can be expensive to feed, breed, selll....but the people who want the expensive wine aren't suddenly settling for the $29 stuff because it's there.

Of course, if someone is selling a cat worth 4K for 200L, and you want at least 2K, yes, theyre pricing you out of the market. But you can see people do this in RL business during recessions, and they eventually can't afford the losses and go out of business. People tend to think short term, and that's why there are so many "going out of business" sales with 50L cats.

I really love KittyCatS,..the cats, the people, the way that it's a bit like art, making things. Not all your projects turn out to be the Mona Lisa, though. I'm rather sure DaVinci had some "Ehhh" attempts that he sold to someone who knew nothing about art to buy better paint for the next try. There's a market for everything, but it's not always the same market.

Of course, just how I see it. Smile

*Hugs*,
*~ Guen

P.S. Okselhandro (and forgive me if I killed the spelling of your name), breeding "couture kitties" is a thing, where the emphasis is more on the artistry than sheer trait value. Really talented breeders, and I've met a few, do both....and you'd need to sell an SL kidney to buy them!
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05-03-2015, 12:44 AM
Post: #66
RE: Kitty pricing!
I found a great online tool to help with pricing. ;P
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05-04-2015, 06:31 PM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2015 06:32 PM by MsMagick Resident.)
Post: #67
RE: Kitty pricing!
(05-03-2015 12:44 AM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  I found a great online tool to help with pricing. ;P

Yes, Tad, but will you pay L$2795 for this guy? If so, he's for sale!

[Image: attachment.php?aid=3243]


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The Magick Cattery

In World Kitties For Sale: http://torgon.info/manage/index.html#!/k...20Resident
MarketPlace: http://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/167189
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05-05-2015, 03:13 PM
Post: #68
RE: Kitty pricing!
(05-04-2015 06:31 PM)MsMagick Resident Wrote:  but will you pay L$2795 for this guy? If so, he's for sale!

WOW! An absolute BARGAIN!

I have a dump truck full of cats like that!

I'm gonna be a MILLIONAIRE Wink

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05-22-2015, 09:17 PM (This post was last modified: 05-23-2015 10:40 AM by doubledareme Resident.)
Post: #69
RE: Kitty pricing!
(04-16-2015 06:02 PM)alansaqui Resident Wrote:  LOL, someone felt alluded to this topic, why? Does his conscience accuses him of something? because here, nobody mentioned any name Big Grin

You don't have to mention names to see who you are pointing fingers at. Do you think that it makes you clever to dis someone who doesn't even understand what you are saying. That my friend is bullying not to mention disrespectful.

The fact of the matter is that for the most part Fabio is right. The MARKET HAS CHANGED!!!

Even in the year I have been breeding the prices over the course of the year have dropped...even on premier or special kittys. There was a time when someone could not buy a megapuss for 1500 or 2000 lindens. But think about it. When they first came out there were very few around. Every breeder has a chance to get a mega in their cattery. It is not regulated to the few people who started with KC. KC has grown exponentially in the last year alone. Hundreds if not 1000's of new breeders since even I have started. These people are all bound to get a mega or two in their cattery's if not more. They are more available. The more become available the harder it will be to price them high. Why should they be so high when they are available to each person. Now that is not to say that a very valuable mega...new traits...coveted traits will not sell hight but there is no way I would get the same price from a gen mega this year as I did last. Last year I had a 3 trait mega I sold ...one of my first for $1700L This year I can't give away my 9T's. That is not because I'm not a good breeder or that the cat is not a good cat. It is because there are hundreds more on the market.

It is the same with any product of any corporation. When the walkman first came out I knew people who had paid a MASSIVE price to own one. As the market grew and more manufacturers made similar objects the prices went down EXCEPT ON NEW MODELS. And even then over the course of time walkman's became cheaper and cheaper because they are not a designer item. Kitty Cats are not designer items. Very few cats deserve that type of recognition and those few cats ALWAYS sell high. I know because I have auctioned them. I have seen red tabbies sell for 1000's of lindens when the more recessive fur Dark Choc Aby didn't even sell at the auction. Why ...because there were hundreds of them on the market but this one red tabby was very specific.

Another example. Mac computers. Only Mac is Mac. There are HUNDREDS of different types of computers on the market. There is only one computer named Mac...or from The APPLE computer corporation. There are so many PC computer manufacturers I can buy a computer for a couple hundred dollars anywhere...even costco and wall mart. But I can only buy a MAC from someone who is licenced to sell them or from a MAC store...and there is only ONE APPLE COMPUTERS. Which is why you pay more.

To liken this to kitty cats is simple. There are hundreds of Foxie Salt and Pepper kittys with bellini eyes and curious tails ...SF or PSF ears and white or black and white mysterious whiskers. HUNDREDS. If there were only a handful you can bet your bottom dollar or linden that you would be having to pay a premium for that cat. But people don't because there are so many of them . This is not due to ONE person or a few people selling them at low prices...rather they sell them at low prices due to the fact that there are so bloody many of them.

KC has changed. It is no longer a very small limited edition market. Even KC itself no longer issues its LE's in small numbers like for instance they did with the Leprecats. That will never happen again because KittyCats is not longer a boutique market. It has become for good or bad a mass market and our kitty's will never be as valuable as they were when there were only a few doz well versed breeders. With the Saga notes came better breeders...with more years on the market came more kittycats lovers and with more buying them came more breeders...it is a cycle.

Gone are the days when you could sell a 9t cat for 900L unless it is special and boutique. THOSE are the kittys that take time to breed up...to make a line of. So many cats now are not these types of kittys because the traits are not as coveted.

It is absolutely ridiculous to think that I need to keep 2000 boxes in my cattery of cats I will never sell at 900L per cat OR menagerie all of them just to keep the prices high. I won't. I spend 1000's of lindens to feed my 180 live cats and I cannot keep putting RL money into lindens to make Linden money let alone to feed a pixel a pixel kibble.

If I can get rid of my dusty boxes as Fabio calls them for 200L then that is far better than the 20L I will get from the menagerie. That is smart business. And for some this has gone way beyond hobby. There are some cats in my cattery I will never sell because they were projects and took me forever to create. If I did ever sell them they would be at a premium but there are some cats I would rather get 200L for than 20L and that is just the way it is.

There is no right or wrong. There is no good guy or bad guy here. We are all subject to the rules of change and growth in the KC market and that is not going to stop just because you dis someone or a few people on a forum.

This pointing fingers and bullying people has to stop. I say this respectfully but I say it intentionally. How are you better when you point a finger at someone for upsetting your linden income and belittling them for doing what in RL happens all the time with economy growth, then when you call someone out for supposedly bullying by intimidation. How exactly are you better...

For the record this post is not aimed at Alan or one specific person but at the whole community. Honestly get a head around the fact that this is not a boutique market anymore and flow with the economy of KC or forever sit in a forum and bitch and point fingers at people.

It's ridiculous.
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05-23-2015, 07:14 AM (This post was last modified: 05-23-2015 03:58 PM by CarlottaAdagio Resident.)
Post: #70
RE: Kitty pricing!
Thank you, doubledareme, for making this post.
Finally somebody who explains the market very true, detailed and comprehensible.

Quote:The MARKET HAS CHANGED!!!
Oh yes, but still there a so many people who try to deny this.
I think that some breeders/sellers behave like small defiant children. They think that other people have to buy their 1000 Lindens Kitties because they want it and deserve it. They breeded them for a lot of Lindens and with so much time and patience invested and now want the expenses back. But this is just not working right now. So they blame the breeders/sellers who try to sell their kitties for low prices in order to sell some at all.
I just wish they would realize that the market is satisfied in generally. As doubledareme stated:
Quote:There are hundreds of Foxie Salt and Pepper kittys with bellini eyes and curious tails ...SF or PSF ears and white or black and white mysterious whiskers. HUNDREDS. If there were only a handful you can bet your bottom dollar or linden that you would be having to pay a premium for that cat. But people don't because there are so many of them . This is not due to ONE person or a few people selling them at low prices...rather they sell them at low prices due to the fact that there are so bloody many of them.
For me this is the simple truth.

Quote:If I can get rid of my dusty boxes as Fabio calls them for 200L then that is far better than the 20L I will get from the menagerie. That is smart Business. ... If I did ever sell them they would be at a premium but there are some cats I would rather get 200L for than 20L and that is just the way it is.
So true and I even go further because even 200 Linden might be too much to sell some quite ordinary kitties that practically everybody has already.
I don't understand those people who post adverts in kitty groups saying: I sell all my kitties at ..... Linden. Only today (or a week or whatever). Afterwards they all go to Menagerie or (more dramatic) to kitty heaven or (even more dramatic) to slaughter.
Then I tp there and see the kitties are still 200 to 500 Lindens. This not a menagerie price. I don't understand why they don't price these kitties down to about 40 to 70 Lindens or so. This would still bring more money than putting them into Menagerie and getting about 20 Lindens for them. I don't get the logic in this. OR: Why just make a sale and say: I priced down all my kittens to 100-200 Linden.
I always feel this like a kind of blackmailing attempt against KittyCats Lovers. Like: You are responsible if my poor kitties have to go to heaven!

I just wish everybody would take the present market as what it is and stop dreaming about old times.

And if it is hard to sell a kitty for a high price than just breed it for yourself or don't invest so much lindens to breed it at all.
In my opinion everybody who breeds KittyCats right now in this present time should be able to finance their hobby or (like in my Situation) addiction on their own. Everything else is a dream.
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