Trait Question...

[Piper Rowley]

I have these two kitties:

? We Are Sibilings....

Fur: Balinese - Cream Lynx
Eyes: Odyssey Burst (Shape: Curious | Pupil: Small)
Shade: Twinkle
Tail: Mysterious
Ears: Genesis
Whiskers: White (Shape: Mysterious)
Size: Normal

Version: 1.32
Owner: PiperK Resident
ID: b0ce514f-7e18-f07f-17c9-4ff3bb9ec6ec
Pedigree: http://kittycats.biz/p.php?54e58453-b103595-09202
?????????????????????????????
MOM: Patty
Fur: Balinese - Cream Lynx
Eyes: BlueBerry (Shape: Curious | Pupil: Big)
Shade: Twinkle
Tail: Mysterious
Ears: Genesis
Whiskers: White (Shape: Mysterious)

DAD: Victor
Fur: Balinese - Cream Lynx
Eyes: Odyssey Burst (Shape: Curious | Pupil: Small)
Shade: Twinkle
Tail: Mysterious
Ears: Genesis
Whiskers: White (Shape: Mysterious)
?????????????????????????????????????

and

? And Our Grandfather has Flash!!

Fur: Balinese - Cream Lynx
Eyes: Odyssey Burst (Shape: Mysterious | Pupil: Small)
Shade: Twinkle
Tail: Mysterious
Ears: Genesis
Whiskers: White (Shape: Mysterious)
Size: Normal

Version: 1.32
Owner: PiperK Resident
ID: 4365fa7e-94be-f76e-15ae-fa07357cb6f8
Pedigree: http://kittycats.biz/p.php?15c52bc5-4101818-09243
?????????????????????????????
MOM: Patty
0Fur: Balinese - Cream Lynx
Eyes: BlueBerry (Shape: Curious | Pupil: Big)
Shade: Twinkle
Tail: Mysterious
Ears: Genesis
Whiskers: White (Shape: Mysterious)

DAD: Victor
Fur: Balinese - Cream Lynx
Eyes: Odyssey Burst (Shape: Curious | Pupil: Small)
Shade: Twinkle
Tail: Mysterious
Ears: Genesis
Whiskers: White (Shape: Mysterious)
?????????????????????????????????????

They're parents are silblings as well and THEIR dad has flash. Would it be possible for Flash to be hidden since both are showing Twinkle? Parents pedigrees are enabled so feel free to look at them too.

[Tad Carlucci]

If I understand you correctly:

GrandMother(Twinkle) x GrandFather(Flash) -> Victor (Twinkle hiding Flash or Blush) and also -> Patty (Twinkle hiding Flash or Blush)

Victor x Patty -> "We are Siblings" and also "And our grandfather has Flash"

The odds for each of those siblings are:

1-in-3: Twinkle hiding Twinkle
2-in-3: Twinkle hiding Flash

The net odds of producing a Flash are 1 in 6.

This conditional.

If Flash ever appears, the odds of it re-appearing are 1-in-4.

The difference (5 in 12) .. just shy of 50% .. are the odds that Flash will never appear. (And, gee, I hope I did the arithmetic right: I really should not do this sort of stuff in my head.)

Basically, though, it's a coin toss. Heads you win and the odds are 1-in-4. Tails you lose and the odds are 0.

[Piper Rowley]

lol. Thanks Tad. I love your equations.

I have these kitties on a bid board and had them advertised as hiding flash. I was messaged saying there is no way they could be hiding it so I thought I would ask here.

[Tad Carlucci]

If you're selling Victor or Patty, both definitely hide Flash (according to your statement their shared father shows Flash).

If you're selling "We are Siblings" or "And our grandfather has Flash", I would characterize it as "probably hides Flash" since there is still a 1-in-3 changes they're "pure Twinkle" instead. So, a claim "hides Flash" is misleading, and the complaint you received was warranted.

If Flash is what you're interested in breeding, "We are Siblings" and "And our grandfather has Flash" have a better-than-even chance of succeeding, but that is only slightly better than their chance of being incapable .. AS A PAIR. Even failure does not say neither hides Flash. For success in breeding, both must. If one does and one does not (quite likely to be the case), you'll never get Flash, but selecting a different partner, who hides Flash might still succeed.

[Liriel Garnet]

From what I saw of the pedigrees, the parents of the siblings in question are each showing twinkle. they are full siblings and OS of a mom who shows porcelain hides (presumably) twinkle and a dad who shows twinkle and hides flash+ (showing from HIS parent, or Victor and Patty's grandparent).

That means the PARENTS (Victor and Patty) of this pair are each only 50/50 to hide the flash from their dad (Hugi). If you actually enumerate all 16 possibilities for the 2nd gen OS, you'll come up with 1 box that shows flash, which possibility we can eliminate. Of the remaining 15, 6 will hide the flash and 9 won't. So you have a 6/15 or 2/5 (40%) chance each that these boxes will hide the flash+.

Unless the parents of these boxes have *given* you a flash showing, in which case the odds of each of these boxes hiding flash as well are 2/3.

Hope that helps.

[Rheaven Resident]

(08-26-2013 02:25 PM)PiperK Resident Wrote:  lol. Thanks Tad. I love your equations.

I have these kitties on a bid board and had them advertised as hiding flash. I was messaged saying there is no way they could be hiding it so I thought I would ask here.

Hi Piper,

I do owe you an apology although I was partially correct I didn't take into account how far back the Kittycest went. Instead of saying that the siblings cant hide the flash, I should have said there is a possibly that one or both may not be hiding the flash. The only real way of finding out is by breeding the siblings.

They are a beautiful set of sibs btw.

Rheaven Tussaud

[Piper Rowley]

I appreciate you coming to me Rheaven. I appreciate everyone chiming in. It's a learning experience and any input is welcome. I have changed the boy to say, "And Probably Hides Flash". I do not want to mislead anyone. I do have another set from the same parents I intend to breed myself so hopefully, *crosses fingers*, I can get that to come out somehow.