Ok here's some notes about what Charles and I found using the info we had in the archives from Saga (actual proofs, not chart info) and the images shown in the first post above):
Proof that we do have from Saga that's relevant to this proof:
Aby Creme > Bengal Silver
First image:
Pika must be hiding non-gen fur X, otherwise Ysis 09 would be hiding it and Ysis 08-13 would be showing a gen fur.
Therefore, Ysis 09 (dad of 08-13) is also hiding non-gen fur X.
Ysis is hiding non-gen fur Y, and therefore Ysis 08 (mom of 08-13) is also hiding gen fur Y.
Ysis 08-13 has to be a product of (FurX) + (FurY) where one of those is Aby Creme and the other is ??
Second Image:
Next picture shows offspring of Ysis.
One of these is a Snowshoe Bluepoint. Therefore, Ysis must be hiding Snowshoe Bluepoint or better, and can't be hiding Aby Creme.
Therefore, in the expression Ysys 08-13 = (FurX) + (FurY)
- Fur Y must be Snowshoe Bluepoint or better
- Fur X must be Aby Creme (= Pika is hiding Aby Creme)
Third Image:
Bunch of Pika offspring, one of which is CocoaWhite2.
If Pika + Jana begat CocoaWhite2, then CocoaWhite2 must be hiding Pika's hidden Aby Creme
Aby Creme < CocoaWhite2
(contrary to chart info, but a pretty solid proof)
Fourth Image:
Ysis 09 = (Pika) + (Ysys) = Aby Creme (Snowshoe Bluepoint or better)
Tigra 08-01 = Tigra 08 + Ysis 09 = Ruddy (has to be from Tigra 09)
Therefore, Tigra 08-01 is Aby Ruddy (Aby Creme)
This solidifies the info that is on the charts about Aby Ruddy > Aby Creme.
So what we're going to do is update the charts to show that Aby Ruddy> Aby Creme > Bengal Silver, but we don't know where Aby Creme is relative to the furs in between Ruddy and Bengal Silver.
Also update the Cocoa and White #2 info based on the info from this proof and other proofs we found in Saga's archives.
This also affects other proofs that we'll have to edit since we don't have the documents in Saga's archives, so there'll be additional changes to some of the other items in that general area of the chart.
We would love more info on the Aby Creme and the Cocoa and White #2 if anyone has anything at all, even if it's old.
(08-25-2014 06:48 PM)Aramis Gontineac Wrote: Well i hope that those infos show that i'm not a joker and that i dont contradict Saga's chart for the fun.
That's ok Aramis, it doesn't matter, it's just how things showed in the info we have; we don't have all the info about your cats, only what you show us.. so for working out things we had to say "Bluepoint or better" because we didn't have the proof that you had. It ensures that our work is accurate
(08-25-2014 06:48 PM)Aramis Gontineac Wrote: Well i hope that those infos show that i'm not a joker and that i dont contradict Saga's chart for the fun.
No worries, I don't think anyone thinks that
In fact, it's good if you find contradictions because we want the charts to be as accurate as possible! So don't be shy about bringing them up - we only have what Saga gave us, which is from a long time ago, and have found a few instances like this one where people had solid proof of things that conflict newer information that was added. So it's a good thing, don't worry!
(08-25-2014 06:41 PM)Tad Carlucci Wrote: Yes, I wish they'd move the "estimates" out of the left column and leave it showing only proven facts. Traditionally, the other columns show the proven range, indicating the trait might be anywhere in the range covered in the left-most column. Unfortunately, someone decided to merge unproven traits into the proven column, so decisions based upon that column are no longer reliable, as your proof shows. Let's hope the new maintainers can correct the errors .. a lot of people depend upon the charts presenting accurate information.
Saga mentioned that to me when we took over: that we should take away the "blue" and either put them as yellow or move them to grey sidebars. Sidebars were originally for larger estimated ranges and blue was handy when there were a few blues in a row, but we don't generally get a few estimated furs in an unknown order like that (still happens with those sets of eyes, like the fruit eyes tho).
We discussed this a bit last week and got some advice from Saga on how to deal with it, and we'll be making some changes about this once we get settled with all the old-new info coming in.
Château Cocoa & White N2 fur is dominant to Aby Creme + recessive to Aby Ruddy
