What are the best traits to breed right now?

[GennaGoldshimmer Resident]

I have a ton of 9T cats (P & W No. 1-Pandie B & W-Siamese Chocolate-Bengal Snow-and Snowshoe Bluepoint-2 of the P & W No. 1's are BDB) right now that i've been told are basically worthless because the traits are too common..I have spent a small fortune procuring then breeding the 4 sets of parents and I need to get something back for it. So I am wondering what would be the best traits to look for to breed my 9T cats to? Any help is appreciated.

[Aubreygrace Starlight]

Breed what you want to breed. It's supposed to be fun and challenging, not what's popular or worth money. Plus it's more of an opinion answer you will get. It really depends on what kind of cat you're trying to "make". With that in mind try breeding traits that you would like to see in some kitties. I breed what I want to, not what people tell me to or what they consider popular. There are a lot of new traits out right now too so that's part of why people think the older traits aren't good. If you like something breed it. I wouldn't consider traits worthless, they just aren't as popular as when they first came out because of the new ones. good luck!

[Sneak Whisperwind]

I personally love the older furs and many of the traits that have been retired. Trait value to me is subjective. Sure it would be nice to have some newer traits in my lines...but until the secondary market prices come down on them...that isn't going to happen for me. I don't open a lot of the Collection kitten boxes....so finding new traits is going to be rare for me. Do what you love and makes you happy. Not what the latest fad is.

[Mellyn Llewellyn]

(01-08-2014 10:18 AM)GennaGoldshimmer Resident Wrote:  I have a ton of 9T cats (P & W No. 1-Pandie B & W-Siamese Chocolate-Bengal Snow-and Snowshoe Bluepoint-2 of the P & W No. 1's are BDB) right now that i've been told are basically worthless because the traits are too common..I have spent a small fortune procuring then breeding the 4 sets of parents and I need to get something back for it. So I am wondering what would be the best traits to look for to breed my 9T cats to? Any help is appreciated.

I understand the point other posters make to breed what you like, but you asked how to recover costs, basically how to produce a cat that will sell, and it's just a fact not all traits are valued equally at the markets. Generally speaking, the more recessive traits sell better than more dominant traits. 8-9 traits sell better than cats with fewer traits. Live cats sell better than boxed cats. Again, this is a broad generalization. There is a lot of leeway here.

People tend to buy recessive furs but many fur/eye combinations sell - more recessive fur + less recessive eye or less recessive fur + more recessive eye. I try to focus on more than just a nice eye and fur combination and work to add stronger (e.g. more recessive) traits for shade, tail, ears, and whiskers. Many of my sales are live cats at the 100% love tables, either good boxes I've opened to sell or breeders that have been replaced by an offspring or getting older. People will buy a cat at 100% love that they wouldn't buy if it were boxed and they had to wait two weeks.

Some very recessive traits get overbred because they are THE most recessive trait. Foxie Salt and Peppers and Odyssey Bellini eyes suffer some from this, but finding a Foxie S&P with Prismatic or Blush Quartz, say, and a good tail, ears, and/or whiskers is much harder to find. I have learned to be sensitive to the market - not chase it, but to pay attention to it.

All this being said, breeding kitties is a hobby. I have a book budget because I love to read. I have a kitty budget because I love to breed. I have been breeding for over two years, so I have some well established lines now, but I have spent a ton of money to get there. I just used Christmas money from my mom to buy a Bengal Black. She would be appalled. But other than a splurge like that, I can almost always cover my costs now - almost but not always.

Hope this helps some.


PS - should add the obvious: newer traits sell better than older traits, but collecting new traits/furs is expensive business. I will say that I have always recovered the cost of a splurge within 3-4 months. It's just that I never save enough kitty money for those splurges - they come right out of the bank account.

[CatSoleil Bellecoeur]

(01-10-2014 09:26 PM)Mellyn Llewellyn Wrote:  ... I just used Christmas money from my mom to buy a Bengal Black. She would be appalled.

Oh my, Ellyn, how this made me laugh out loud! Thank you!

And your reply to the original question was perfect --- honest and spot-on. I think that is what new folks are asking about when asking about what to breed. We need to reassure that it's okay and fun to breed for what you like, but it's also more helpful to add what we've learned about dominant/recessive traits, combinations, and "the market."

[Deer Thistle]

The best traits to breed right now are the ones you love most.

There aren't any "worthless" traits so don't let anyone convince you otherwise. Any gorgeous trait combinations will always have value (there's lots of breeders whose shops are tailored to beautiful cats without factoring in flavor-of-the-month traits or overall new traits) and capture the attention of others who appreciate the aesthetic and the dedication put into the project.

Sometimes I find it's harder to locate particular traits that often get lost because many are fixated on breeding the most recessive (bonus points if it's also new) traits; these are the traits that become more "common" as well in the long run, especially due to the KittyCatS breeding mechanics with easily losing dominant traits for good. Foxie S&P with Ody Bellini eyes? Very recessive, but after returning from my SL hiatus, I see this fur/eye combination more than most others now. [Insert Newest Fur] with Apple and Twinkle, possibly a Pointed Soft Fold? Very nice traits that are often added to a newly discovered fur, but so common since 2012.

Also: I've nothing against new traits, I love new traits, but I will only breed those traits that really "speak" to me (Ugh OdyRoundedFold, you've stolen my heart!) or I can develop a distinct vision for. Ultimately the trait won't be "new" anymore or the most recessive so you should be pleased with the trait on its own without factoring in newness/recessiveness.

For me, I always feel best about my cattery when I'm breeding that which I'm passionate about. It makes me feel even prouder when I get that box that yields me the dream kitty who meets my goal(s) for that particular project, and what a pretty kitty it will be with plenty of gushing at its loveliness.

Everyone is different though so "best traits" to you might mean something totally different from my given perspective. If you're happy breeding Pandie Brown & White 1s and Siamese Chocolates, stay happy and don't let anyone discourage you with stating that either trait may be "too common" or "worthless"; it's all a matter of what you really and truly want to breed in the long run.

I highly recommend using Tad's awesome Build-A-Cat to help you set goals based on combinations made that you can be excited about.

[CatSoleil Bellecoeur]

(01-08-2014 10:18 AM)GennaGoldshimmer Resident Wrote:  ...I have spent a small fortune procuring then breeding the 4 sets of parents and I need to get something back for it. So I am wondering what would be the best traits to look for to breed my 9T cats to?

Genna, your original post is receiving good advice from very experienced breeders. As I interpret your question, I think you are not only asking about breeding traits, but you are wondering how to breed with a goal of possible sales and partial recoupment of your financial investment. This is where knowledge of newly discovered traits, dominance/recessivity of traits, and observation of the market (and saturation of said market) comes in handy. Always bear in mind, though, that the market is fickle and cannot be relied on for an equitable reimbursement in your breeding costs.

Absolutely, there are no "worthless" traits in our beloved KittyCatS! I recently discovered how endearing azure eyes (a dominant trait) are on a Maine Coon fur. And from playing around with the Build-a-Cat site, I have a project planned that will combine the very new with the very old --- Grotto eyes on an original genesis <gasp!> fur, Diamond I (I have been hoarding kitten boxes for almost three years)! Will this be a cat that will be monetarily valuable in an auction or in a shop? Most likely not, but it will not matter because this cat will be adored in my Second Life home and will not be for sale!

Good luck and have fun with all of your breeding efforts and goals! That's the joy of being a part of KittyCatS!

[Kayleigh McMillan]

I agree breeding what you think is pretty is likely something for which is a market as well.
I'm not so much breeding new traits I'm a sucker for eyes and whiskers though.
And I adore the Ody Rounded Fold and also the Rounded Fold that is to me just such a perfect pair of ears to snuggle
But I always like to combine them in an unexpected combination just so there aren't a gazallion of the same cats because it might be just me but I think those are harder to sell.
We can fairly assume it is a matter of time that the love shack will be filled with the Snowshoe Cream with Grotto Eyes and if everything goes well a Posh Tail, Soft Curl Ears, a Blush Shade and the latest reci whiskers.
That is if these breeders are faster than that KittyCatS! will release a new recessive and that is not very likely the case.
For example I passed the Salt & Pepper but not the Ody Bellini's I love those eyes.
I'd go for a less obvious and more cost effective way for which you don't have to obtain a trait at the highest rate and stress out to finish that ultimate recessive fast enough before others do.
It may not give you the jackpot but then the investment wasn't as high as those who have all the latest traits + the risks that go with that.
I've also noticed the love shack is a very good place to sell kitties and that live kitties sell better than boxed kitties.