(05-23-2015 07:44 AM)Ivy Norsk Wrote:  I'm all for being realistic about the market. Some kitties Are worth more than others. I tend to look at quality of whiskers when shopping; others may look at other things depending on their projects.
The fundamental problem is that there are just too darn many cats on the grid. Nobody wants to menagerie tons of kitties that they've poured their lindens into. But the problem will not get better until the supply is shrunk to fit the demand.

There needs to be a HUGE incentive to menagerie cats. (Current math of 20L per box is not very compelling.) The market will not improve until there is a giant bonfire of cats. I know that sounds gross. But the market won't get better without it. People spend a lot of money to buy those limited editions. They are willing to put out to get them. I really think it would be worthwhile to have limited edition menagerie cats. Create an urgency to menagerie cats. So that people Have to Menagerie cats RIGHT NOW, or they won't be able to GET that Menagerie cat. I think that nothing short of that will take the cats off the grid. A side-effect of that - and a good one - will be that some retired traits could become genuinely more rare through such an action. And what a mind-blowing effect there would be if a trait actually went extinct. That would make the market move. People would start buying retired traits. It would make the wheel turn.

Now, digging a little deeper into what the mechanics should be for the limited editions: many of the cats on the grid are in the hands of smaller breeders... not bigger breeders. And the smaller breeders don't have enough cats in total to make it worthwhile to turn in cats for menagerie. So those limited editions shouldn't require a huge number of cats. So if the LE menagerie cost is low, but the time available is also short, it may work. In other words, I'm suggesting making menagerie LEs that are relatively easy to get, but you have to get them RIGHT AWAY. Do it in spurts or sprints.

(05-23-2015 07:14 AM)CarlottaAdagio Resident Wrote:  Thank you, alansaqui, for making this post.
Finally somebody who explains the market very true, detailed and comprehensible.

Quote:The MARKET HAS CHANGED!!!

Oh yes, but still there a so many people who try to deny this.
I think that some breeders/sellers behave like small defiant children. They think that other people have to buy their 1000 Lindens Kitties because they want it and deserve it. They breeded them for a lot of Lindens and with so much time and patience invested and now want the expenses back. But this is just not working right now. So they blame the breeders/sellers who try to sell their kitties for low prices in order to sell some at all.
I just wish they would realize that the market is satisfied in generally. As alansaqui stated:

Quote:There are hundreds of Foxie Salt and Pepper kittys with bellini eyes and curious tails ...SF or PSF ears and white or black and white mysterious whiskers. HUNDREDS. If there were only a handful you can bet your bottom dollar or linden that you would be having to pay a premium for that cat. But people don't because there are so many of them . This is not due to ONE person or a few people selling them at low prices...rather they sell them at low prices due to the fact that there are so bloody many of them.

For me this is the simple truth.

Quote:If I can get rid of my dusty boxes as Fabio calls them for 200L then that is far better than the 20L I will get from the menagerie. That is smart Business. ... If I did ever sell them they would be at a premium but there are some cats I would rather get 200L for than 20L and that is just the way it is.

So true and I even go further because even 200 Linden might be too much to sell some quite ordinary kitties that practically everybody has already.
I don't understand those people who post adverts in kitty groups saying: I sell all my kitties at ..... Linden. Only today (or a week or whatever). Afterwards they all go to Menagerie or (more dramatic) to kitty heaven or (even more dramatic) to slaughter.
Then I tp there and see the kitties are still 200 to 500 Lindens. This not a menagerie price. I don't understand why they don't price these kitties down to about 40 to 70 Lindens or so. This would still bring more money than putting them into Menagerie and getting about 20 Lindens for them. I don't get the logic in this. OR: Why just make a sale and say: I priced down all my kittens to 100-200 Linden.
I always feel this like a kind of blackmailing attempt against KittyCats Lovers. Like: You are responsible if my poor kitties have to go to heaven!

I just wish everybody would take the present market as what it is and stop dreaming about old times.

And if it is hard to sell a kitty for a high price than just breed it for yourself or don't invest so much lindens to breed it at all.
In my opinion everybody who breeds KittyCats right now in this present time should be able to finance their hobby or (like in my Situation) addiction on their own. Everything else is a dream.

(05-23-2015 07:44 AM)Ivy Norsk Wrote:  I'm all for being realistic about the market. Some kitties Are worth more than others. I tend to look at quality of whiskers when shopping; others may look at other things depending on their projects.
The fundamental problem is that there are just too darn many cats on the grid. Nobody wants to menagerie tons of kitties that they've poured their lindens into. But the problem will not get better until the supply is shrunk to fit the demand.

There needs to be a HUGE incentive to menagerie cats. (Current math of 20L per box is not very compelling.) The market will not improve until there is a giant bonfire of cats. I know that sounds gross. But the market won't get better without it. People spend a lot of money to buy those limited editions. They are willing to put out to get them. I really think it would be worthwhile to have limited edition menagerie cats. Create an urgency to menagerie cats. So that people Have to Menagerie cats RIGHT NOW, or they won't be able to GET that Menagerie cat. I think that nothing short of that will take the cats off the grid. A side-effect of that - and a good one - will be that some retired traits could become genuinely more rare through such an action. And what a mind-blowing effect there would be if a trait actually went extinct. That would make the market move. People would start buying retired traits. It would make the wheel turn.

Now, digging a little deeper into what the mechanics should be for the limited editions: many of the cats on the grid are in the hands of smaller breeders... not bigger breeders. And the smaller breeders don't have enough cats in total to make it worthwhile to turn in cats for menagerie. So those limited editions shouldn't require a huge number of cats. So if the LE menagerie cost is low, but the time available is also short, it may work. In other words, I'm suggesting making menagerie LEs that are relatively easy to get, but you have to get them RIGHT AWAY. Do it in spurts or sprints.

(05-23-2015 07:44 AM)Ivy Norsk Wrote:  I'm all for being realistic about the market. Some kitties Are worth more than others. I tend to look at quality of whiskers when shopping; others may look at other things depending on their projects.
The fundamental problem is that there are just too darn many cats on the grid. Nobody wants to menagerie tons of kitties that they've poured their lindens into. But the problem will not get better until the supply is shrunk to fit the demand.

There needs to be a HUGE incentive to menagerie cats. (Current math of 20L per box is not very compelling.) The market will not improve until there is a giant bonfire of cats. I know that sounds gross. But the market won't get better without it. People spend a lot of money to buy those limited editions. They are willing to put out to get them. I really think it would be worthwhile to have limited edition menagerie cats. Create an urgency to menagerie cats. So that people Have to Menagerie cats RIGHT NOW, or they won't be able to GET that Menagerie cat. I think that nothing short of that will take the cats off the grid. A side-effect of that - and a good one - will be that some retired traits could become genuinely more rare through such an action. And what a mind-blowing effect there would be if a trait actually went extinct. That would make the market move. People would start buying retired traits. It would make the wheel turn.

Now, digging a little deeper into what the mechanics should be for the limited editions: many of the cats on the grid are in the hands of smaller breeders... not bigger breeders. And the smaller breeders don't have enough cats in total to make it worthwhile to turn in cats for menagerie. So those limited editions shouldn't require a huge number of cats. So if the LE menagerie cost is low, but the time available is also short, it may work. In other words, I'm suggesting making menagerie LEs that are relatively easy to get, but you have to get them RIGHT AWAY. Do it in spurts or sprints.

Fabio Wrote:it's just impossible for small and new breeder accumulate 200-300 boxes.