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New Fur - Chimera - Black Grey
08-16-2020, 06:13 PM
Post: #11
RE: New Fur - Chimera - Black Grey
That kitty looks amazing congratulations.
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08-18-2020, 04:26 PM (This post was last modified: 08-18-2020 07:20 PM by Coverboytoy Resident.)
Post: #12
RE: New Fur - Chimera - Black Grey
Here is ㊏Ðєνίレ WÕℓŦ㊏ (wolfisme.caiben) proof on his Chimera Black Grey. By looks of this, this must now be our most recessive fur?

[Image: e96a6ebb7d89927ca87b3dc65be71abc.png]

ςoνєгßⓄץ кєレレץ™ (coverboytoy)
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08-18-2020, 05:25 PM
Post: #13
RE: New Fur - Chimera - Black Grey
(08-18-2020 04:26 PM)Coverboytoy Resident Wrote:  Here is ㊏Ðєνίレ WÕℓŦ㊏ (wolfisme.caiben) proof on his Chimera Black Grey. By looks of this, this must now be our most recessive fur.

[Image: e96a6ebb7d89927ca87b3dc65be71abc.png]

Can you walk me through your reasoning? I may be missing something, but other than the names, I am not seeing anything in this proof that shows it recessive to Ocicat Platinum.
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08-18-2020, 07:16 PM (This post was last modified: 08-18-2020 07:17 PM by Coverboytoy Resident.)
Post: #14
RE: New Fur - Chimera - Black Grey
If you look at Chim Lady and chim chim charoo (on mom side) their baby was an Ocicat Plat. The only way would have been possible is that the Chimera is recessive. Hmmm however maybe there was an Oci Plat perhaps behind that Chimera. We probable need more proof to confirm this now that I think about it more.

It is a very interesting proof, I hope others can figure it out and share their response.

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08-18-2020, 07:28 PM
Post: #15
RE: New Fur - Chimera - Black Grey
Wow!
I think you've done it. I think this Really Does prove that Chimera Black Grey is the new most recessive fur.

One thing that really helps when looking at the pedigree is noticing that the male "Chim givin stud" appears on both the mother's and father's side of the pedigree and you're looking at the same pedigree twice that takes us all the way back to "First Chimera" and the starters that produced him. This lets us review the fact that "First Chimera" has to be pure Chimera and can ONLY throw the Chimera fur.

"First Chimera" appears multiple times in the pedigree and it matters that he ONLY can ever throw Chimera fur in all the instances. For detailed pics of these cats you can check further up the thread for Apricot and Sakespeare and the fur's discovery.

The essence of the proof occurs in the very top lines of the pedigree looking at "Two Faced SheDevil"'s lineage. Look at the very right hand side top of the pedigree. "First Chimera" mates with "Mercy" who is an Aby Dark Chocolate. The baby is Aussie Blue Marble showing. "First Chimera" is Chimera pure: he had to throw it. Chim Lady, the blue marble MUST hide the Chimera fur. (That's a proof in itself.)
But what happens next gets really interesting: "Chim Lady" mates with an OciCat Platinum born from two OciCat Platinums. (Why oh why would anybody name this cat "chim chim charoo" - we believe it to be Ocicat Platinum pure... unless Coverboy has reason to think it also hides Chimera fur.) No matter - It throws the OciCat platinum fur. "Chim Lady" has Nothing to throw except Aussie Blue Marble and the Chimera fur. We know that Ocicat Platinum does not hide the Aussie Blue Marble. It MUST hide the Chimera.

That's really all you need for the proof. Although the copious pedigree that Coverboy gives us does show us the whole family tree. To take it further down, "Chim given stud" is a burmese blue hiding the Chimera fur from "First Chimera". These two Chimera hiders both throw their hiddens to produce "Two Faced SheDevil" who is Chimera - Black Grey pure.

The next generation is "Two Faced SheDevil" (chimera fur pure) doing a backbreed with dad, and they produce the cat "Pure Chimera".

I'm not going to change the charts yet. I'd like some of our experienced pedigree proofers to double-check my reasoning here.
But wow, CONGRATS Coverboy.

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08-18-2020, 07:52 PM
Post: #16
RE: New Fur - Chimera - Black Grey
(08-18-2020 07:28 PM)Ivy Norsk Wrote:  Wow!
I think you've done it. I think this Really Does prove that Chimera Black Grey is the new most recessive fur.

One thing that really helps when looking at the pedigree is noticing that the male "Chim givin stud" appears on both the mother's and father's side of the pedigree and you're looking at the same pedigree twice that takes us all the way back to "First Chimera" and the starters that produced him. This lets us review the fact that "First Chimera" has to be pure Chimera and can ONLY throw the Chimera fur.

"First Chimera" appears multiple times in the pedigree and it matters that he ONLY can ever throw Chimera fur in all the instances. For detailed pics of these cats you can check further up the thread for Apricot and Sakespeare and the fur's discovery.

The essence of the proof occurs in the very top lines of the pedigree looking at "Two Faced SheDevil"'s lineage. Look at the very right hand side top of the pedigree. "First Chimera" mates with "Mercy" who is an Aby Dark Chocolate. The baby is Aussie Blue Marble showing. "First Chimera" is Chimera pure: he had to throw it. Chim Lady, the blue marble MUST hide the Chimera fur. (That's a proof in itself.)
But what happens next gets really interesting: "Chim Lady" mates with an OciCat Platinum born from two OciCat Platinums. (Why oh why would anybody name this cat "chim chim charoo" - we believe it to be Ocicat Platinum pure... unless Coverboy has reason to think it also hides Chimera fur.) No matter - It throws the OciCat platinum fur. "Chim Lady" has Nothing to throw except Aussie Blue Marble and the Chimera fur. We know that Ocicat Platinum does not hide the Aussie Blue Marble. It MUST hide the Chimera.

That's really all you need for the proof. Although the copious pedigree that Coverboy gives us does show us the whole family tree. To take it further down, "Chim given stud" is a burmese blue hiding the Chimera fur from "First Chimera". These two Chimera hiders both throw their hiddens to produce "Two Faced SheDevil" who is Chimera - Black Grey pure.

The next generation is "Two Faced SheDevil" (chimera fur pure) doing a backbreed with dad, and they produce the cat "Pure Chimera".

I'm not going to change the charts yet. I'd like some of our experienced pedigree proofers to double-check my reasoning here.
But wow, CONGRATS Coverboy.

Ivy, I think the names were one of the things that threw me -- the cat named "chim chim charoo" would either be an ocicat platinum or AT MOST a possible chimera hider given we can't see its pedigree back that far or see parents' ages. From there I also missed one of the backbreeds in the tree.

I don't think this is probably necessary because you have both got it, but I'm going to do it anyway for my own edification:

Apricot + Kyan = both pass their hiddens to Sakepeare. Sakepeare is showing SSBW.
Sakepeare is backbred to Apricot, and the result is Chimera. Because it's a backbreed and the resulting kitten is neither genesis nor SSBW, First Chimera must, as you said, be pure, because there's no room for anything else to hide.
--Blueberry (Ociplat) + Zerlina (Ociplat) = chim chim charoo (probably pure ociplat, could be confirmed by the age of the line but at any rate there's no evidence visible that it is hiding anything else)
First Chimera (pure) + Mercy (Aby Dark Choc) = Chim Lady (Aussie Mist Blue Marble). We know that the Aussie Mist Blue Marble came from Mercy because First Chimera isn't hiding anything, and that also means that Chim Lady has to be hiding Chimera because First Chimera didn't have anything else to pass
Chim Lady (Aussie Mist Blue Marble hiding Chimera) + chim chim charoo (Ociplat) = Chim Plat F hider (ociplat). It has to be hiding chimera because there is nowhere for ociplat to come from on the other side.

Does that square?
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08-18-2020, 09:45 PM
Post: #17
RE: New Fur - Chimera - Black Grey
After speaking to Ivy earlier tonight, I've found another of Devil Wolf's Chimeras and have taken her pedigree. Similar descent as the boy Coverboy posted earlier but in gyazos of Kittycats pedigrees.

Chim Givin Stud (a Burmese - Blue) was mated with Chim Taker (an Ocicat - Platinum) and made a Ocicat- Platinum Kitten. So Chim Givin Stud must either hide Ocicat-Platinum or something more recessive.

Chim Givin Stud was mated with Chim Lady (an Australian Mist - Blue Marble) on the paternal side of the pedigree and made an Australian Mist - Blue Marble Kitten, he had passed his hidden fur. Which we know to be Ocicat - Platinum - or something more recessive.

His two offspring were then mated and made Chimera Fire Eyes, the only explanation for that is that Chimera - Black Grey must have been hiding under the Ocicat - Platinum fur (and under the Australian Mist - Blue Marble) but for the purposes of this proof it's the hiding under the Ocicat - Platinum that matters.

Which, as Coverboy suggested, makes it the new most recessive fur.



[Image: 9e1dbb2b1ff03f12752cf87c2212e70d.png]

Mum

[Image: 2aa04057f9cf42e686a39bffe04cea85.png]

Dad

[Image: 43f283040532b52d0a775e6a14352724.png]

Maternal grandmother

[Image: 3de9334161be1b85249591315ae4250e.png]

Maternal and Paternal Grandfather

[Image: dd923e146b825fe0f92caf4c0bf3d2dc.png]

Paternal Grandmother

[Image: 2af7bb392085bb801a425573035969f8.png]

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08-19-2020, 02:30 AM
Post: #18
RE: New Fur - Chimera - Black Grey
'Grats! And it's darn cute, too.
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08-19-2020, 06:13 AM
Post: #19
RE: New Fur - Chimera - Black Grey
Well done to Devil for doing the breeding needed to prove the fact.

Nicely done Devil

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08-19-2020, 06:16 AM
Post: #20
RE: New Fur - Chimera - Black Grey
Well done Devil!!

Devil worked hard the last month to pull out the chimera from underneath hiders. Lots of effort, patience and it paid offSmile
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